***Official***Match #32 - New Zealand vs South Africa - November 1st - Pune (D/N)

[SillyCowCorner1]

Just putting it out there,

Glenn Phillips' bowling strike-rate (22.00) > Jadeja (41.12) and Kuldeep's (34.80)

 

[straw man]

Only the third match in Pune by the looks of things, the other two were where India easily chased (3-down) vs Bangladesh and Afghanistan easily chased (also 3-down) vs Sri Lanka. So I guess we want to chase too.

 

[Moss]

Yes it would be good to get him back, but your statement that it's really hurting NZ isn't correct at all.

They've been travelling just fine & the only 2 games they lost were the Australian one when they were an odds-on chance of winning at the end, needing 9 from 3 with Neesham on strike & of course the lost to India when NZ really lost their way towards the end of the batting innings yet still pushed India closer than most other teams. Have you been watching?

Don’t want to read too much into two very well contested defeats, but I think they masked a few issues NZ have (especially in terms of bowling penetration). On the batting front KW hasn’t been missed much but that’s largely down to Mitchell and Ravindra playing out of their skins. The others need to step up. But i think Williamson is particularly missed on the leadership front, Latham’s okay but runs out of ideas at times.

To give credit where it’s due Afghanistan showed in their last two games they’re a serious team in these conditions, so Latham’s efforts with the bat and in leading the side in that game in Chennai were crucial.

 

[Zinzan]

LH Ferguson	2022-2023	26	25	206.0	5	1245	28	3/19	44.46	6.04	44.1	0	0
TG Southee	2022-2023	14	14	113.4	6	634	24	4/22	26.41	5.57	28.4	1	0

I'm not a huge fan of Southee in ODIs as he got a free pass for far too long but the last 2 years when we've had injuries to our first choice bowlers, he stood up pretty well IMO. If anything he'd be better than Ferguson in current conditions because Ferguson can be extremely hittable and the faster you bowl the faster you go to the fence. Southee's variations and prolonged experience of Indian conditions should count for something.

However, I do agree Milne would be a better option as he was hitting his straps leading up to the tournament. I just don't think Southee is as bad now as he has been and I don't think he's a waste of space in the squad.

Also I know those stats seem misleading, and for those who are interested in opposition in that time:

Southee

v Australia	2	2	20.0	1	96	2	1/39	48.00	4.80	60.0	0	0
v England	3	3	21.0	0	165	4	2/65	41.25	7.85	31.5	0	0
v India	3	3	21.3	1	121	5	3/73	24.20	5.62	25.8	0	0
v Pakistan	3	3	24.1	1	144	6	3/56	24.00	5.95	24.1	0	0
v West Indies	3	3	27.0	3	108	7	4/22	15.42	4.00	23.1	1	0

home	3	3	21.3	1	121	5	3/73	24.20	5.62	25.8	0	0
away	11	11	92.1	5	513	19	4/22	27.00	5.56	29.1	1	0

Ferguson:

v Afghanistan	1	1	7.0	1	19	3	3/19	6.33	2.71	14.0	0	0
v Australia	3	3	22.0	0	154	3	2/60	51.33	7.00	44.0	0	0
v Bangladesh	4	3	22.1	1	103	5	3/49	20.60	4.64	26.6	0	0
v England	2	2	18.0	0	130	2	1/50	65.00	7.22	54.0	0	0
v India	7	7	55.5	2	346	7	3/59	49.42	6.19	47.8	0	0
v Ireland	2	2	20.0	1	104	2	2/44	52.00	5.20	60.0	0	0
v Netherlands	1	1	8.0	0	32	0	-	-	4.00	-	0	0
v Pakistan	3	3	25.0	0	145	3	2/63	48.33	5.80	50.0	0	0
v Scotland	1	1	10.0	0	77	2	2/77	38.50	7.70	30.0	0	0
v West Indies	2	2	18.0	0	135	1	1/80	135.00	7.50	108.0	0	0

home	3	3	22.5	1	132	4	3/59	33.00	5.78	34.2	0	0
away	19	18	155.1	3	975	18	2/44	54.16	6.28	51.7	0	0
neutral	4	4	28.0	1	138	6	3/19	23.00	4.92	28.0	0	0

More notably in the last 12 months Southee's ER is 6.45 and has him on the list of those Kiwi bowlers >6s and notably a worse ER than Ravindra.

Further to that and more importantly for me, Ferguson, who admittedly has been very wayward himself in the last couple of years (with glimpses of better form this WC) has a much higher ceiling than Southee, and bowls first change, a position I believe Southee would get murdered by the better teams. Southee's an opener, but he's not going oust Boult or Henry from that role.

I just wish Milne was the back-up over Timmy M. (Mediocre).

 

[Moss]

Southee interestingly has been pretty good in T20s over the last couple of years but I guess his particular set of variations get easier to deal with over 10 overs. Agree with NZT though that he’s useful enough to have as reserve but can’t see him being more effective than Ferguson (in that particular role).

Also for such an experienced player he tends to go missing in bigger games IMO. Tailed off at the business end of the 2015 WC, and his bowling in the 2021 final and 2022 semifinal (T20 World Cup) was disappointing.

 

[Zinzan]

The one thing NZ did get right in 2019 was keeping Timmy on the sidelines.

 

[Heboric]

South Africa by 1 run or 1 wicket

 

[Zinzan]

South Africa by 1 run or 1 wicket

Rough mate, just when I'd managed to not read about or think rugby for 4 days as well.

 

[Shri]

nz - one change - southee in for ferguson

nz bowl first

 

[Skyliner]

Temba wanted to bat first.

 

[Shri]

one change for SA - rabada in for shamsi

 

[_Ed_]

nz bowl first

 

[Molehill]

nz - one change - southee in for ferguson

nz bowl first

Seems an odd decision, literally playing to SA's strength letting them bat first. Sounds like anything over 280 could be a tough chase.

 

[Moss]

Brave decision. Clearly NZ see themselves as a chasing side.

 

[thierry henry]

I know it’s not just his decision but this doesn’t help to improve the impression that Latham is either a very simplistic and narrow-minded tactician or maybe just kind of dopey

 

[Skyliner]

Doull says SA want to bat first, love posting up a big total, NZ have given it away, and now SA are favourites.

 

[King Kane]

Yeah not sure bowling first is the right move when SA usually bat better batting first but apparently chasing on this ground is usually more successful.

We chased pretty well against Australia but we also conceded more runs than we scored and we were lucky not to concede over 400.

Southee in a bit of a concern too, he is a quality red ball bowler but he can be expensive with the white ball.

 

[Moss]

Having picked him, wouldn’t mind Southee getting a crack with the new ball and Boult as first change, but doubt that will happen

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Having picked him, wouldn’t mind Southee getting a crack with the new ball and Boult as first change, but doubt that will happen

Nah, Boult is good against lefthanders and has a good record against QDK.

Perhaps give one of Boult and Henry a shorter new ball spell than usual though to give Southee an early crack.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

We need to beam someone early and say "that's for Sam Cane".