Which England WC campaign was worse, 2015 or 2023?

[Kenneth Viljoen]

It hasn't gone to plan for England to put it mildly.

 

[GIMH]

2023.

This side would beat the 2015 one in a match (I think) but given the expectations and the fact we are supposed to be defending a title, it’s a no contest really

 

[Chubb]

Someone needs to research why great England sides fall apart so suddenly. Not just cricket, where it's happened three times in recent memory. Same thing happened in rugby, though they did well to make the final in 2007 after four bad years (you can argue the same thing happened to the current team, perhaps not to the same extent).

 

[Spark]

Someone needs to research why great England sides fall apart so suddenly. Not just cricket, where it's happened three times in recent memory. Same thing happened in rugby, though they did well to make the final in 2007 after four bad years (you can argue the same thing happened to the current team, perhaps not to the same extent).

The only slightly troll-y answer to this is that their media consistently overhypes and overblows any success their teams but also massively overreacts to bad results with overblown histrionic criticism, which means that incumbents get overly protected and they develop a siege mentality. So teams tend to all age together and go over the hill together without the necessary correctives being made to make the decline so sharp and painful

 

[Chubb]

The only slightly troll-y answer to this is that their media consistently overhypes and overblows any success their teams but also massively overreacts to bad results with overblown histrionic criticism, which means that incumbents get overly protected and they develop a siege mentality. So teams tend to all age together and go over the hill together without the necessary correctives being made to make the decline so sharp and painful

There's definitely some truth in this. The English cricket media panic and catastrophise all the time.

The other aspect discussed before is the stale coach effect. Woodward, Fletcher and Flower all overstayed their welcomes and their otherwise exceptional tenures ended in fiasco. But it's not clear to me how this effect develops. In the current case, Mott was brought in partly to keep things fresh but it hasn't worked (in ODI cricket). Succession in the other cases was also poorly handled (Moores, Robinson or whatever the guy after Woodward's name was)

 

[loterry1994]

2023 easily everyone in 2015 knew most that team was on the way out and didn’t give them much hope winning it.

 

[loterry1994]

Someone needs to research why great England sides fall apart so suddenly. Not just cricket, where it's happened three times in recent memory. Same thing happened in rugby, though they did well to make the final in 2007 after four bad years (you can argue the same thing happened to the current team, perhaps not to the same extent).

i think a lot of the time it’s buying into their own hype and thinking they are much better than they are. Best example is the England football/soccer team.

 

[Daemon]

This one by a mile. Bottom of the table after 6 games is something nobody would've ever guessed.

 

[Chubb]

i think a lot of the time it’s buying into their own hype and thinking they are much better than they are. Best example is the England football/soccer team.

Yes but the German and Spanish football teams won the world cup and then imploded in a similar way.

As an aside the current England football team is a lot more likeable and realistic than the "Golden Generation". Say what you like about them but they seem mostly pretty down to earth and likeable people, for multi millionaire sports stars.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Someone needs to research why great England sides fall apart so suddenly. Not just cricket, where it's happened three times in recent memory. Same thing happened in rugby, though they did well to make the final in 2007 after four bad years (you can argue the same thing happened to the current team, perhaps not to the same extent).

They weren't great to begin with. They got the 2019 title but it's not like they were convincing at all. Just a case of thinking they're a lot better than they actually are.

Having said that they definitely should have done better than this. I put it down to the batting falling apart. The bowling was always bad to average at best but they relied heavily on Root and Buttler especially being super players. This tournament they just stopped doing that

 

[Burgey]

their media consistently overhypes and overblows any success their teams

You can't really blame them for doing that when the successes are so few and far between.

 

[SteveNZ]

Yeah, 2023 in a canter. Such a pathetically lame defense of a title they coveted so keenly last time.

 

[Shri]

 

[Flem274*]

They have both been enjoyable but this one more so, because it keeps going.

 

[Ashes81]

This world cup has been the worst because expectations were so much higher - we have under performed to an almost unprecedented level.

In 2015, we performed really poorly, but we were a pretty poor team.

The 2023 isn't a poor team, far from it, but it has performed like one.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The 2023 isn't a poor team, far from it, but it has performed like one.

Cope

 

[Chin Music]

We always knew that the bowling was markedly worse than 2019, but the batting has been atrocious given that this lineup won the t20 world cup less than 12 months ago.

 

[Blenkinsop]

It's going to get a whole lot worse when Adil Rashid retires.

 

[Molehill]

It's going to get a whole lot worse when Adil Rashid retires.

Disagree, he's not been at his best for a while and Rehan looks a ready made replacement.

 

[Preed]

Agree Rehan should have been in this squad.Rashid is ok but no where near the bowler of old as the rest of the over hyped team.We won the World Cup in 2019 thanks to Stokes deflecting a throw for 4 overthrows