Quarter Finals

[Furball]

France lost a close game by 1 point which featured a charged down conversion.

Ireland lost by 4 points in a game which featured a fantastic piece of individual defending by Barrett.

On another day those two things go the other way and we have 3 NH semi finalists, with neither SH powerhouse team in the semis (possibly for the first time ever?).

It's not like Ireland and France were blown away in their games. The gap between the top 4 teams is basically non-existent (don't forget that New Zealand lost heavily to France and South Africa lost to Ireland), and it's just the outcome of a ****ing stupid draw which has meant that 2 of them are out at the quarters.

 

[Furball]

Also

even NZ fans were suggesting this could be the worst team they've ever taken to a World Cup.

This is hyperbolic rubbish which I usually wouldn't bother replying to, but a bad team by New Zealand standards is still generally a really good side by world standards.

 

[Molehill]

France lost a close game by 1 point which featured a charged down conversion.

Ireland lost by 4 points in a game which featured a fantastic piece of individual defending by Barrett.

On another day those two things go the other way and we have 3 NH semi finalists, with neither SH powerhouse team in the semis (possibly for the first time ever?).

It's not like Ireland and France were blown away in their games. The gap between the top 4 teams is basically non-existent (don't forget that New Zealand lost heavily to France and South Africa lost to Ireland), and it's just the outcome of a ****ing stupid draw which has meant that 2 of them are out at the quarters.

I get all that, and they were unlucky. But this was literally their best chance of turning those teams over and they couldn't get it done. What's likely to change in their favour in 4 years time?

This is hyperbolic rubbish which I usually wouldn't bother replying to, but a bad team by New Zealand standards is still generally a really good side by world standards.

That's kind of the point. Even an average NZ side found a way past the best Ireland have ever taken to a World Cup.

Why do N Hemisphere sides struggle so much in the knockout games against S Hemisphere ones?

 

[Furball]

Because New Zealand and South Africa are the two foremost rugby nations in the world.

France and Ireland would have demolished the dross on the other side of the draw.

 

[Molehill]

Because New Zealand and South Africa are the two foremost rugby nations in the world.

France and Ireland would have demolished the dross on the other side of the draw.

And then just lost in the semis instead. Unless something astonishing happens, NZ/SA will have shared the last 5 World Cups, I see nothing to suggest they won't share the next 5 either....which I find a bit sad.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Lol do you think rugby games are completely deterministic or something

 

[Heboric]

Well quite a lot of pundits were saying an all NH team semi finals

 

[Molehill]

Lol do you think rugby games are completely deterministic or something

Only 2 teams outside NZ/SA have won a World Cup, they both now have huge issues in their domestic game. What is to prevent NZ/SA winning the next 5?

 

[Furball]

I don't know why you find this so surprising.

Football is a far more global game yet 5 countries (Brazil, Argentina, France, Germany and Italy) between them account for 18/22 World Cup wins and 32 out of 44 final appearances.

 

[Furball]

Only 2 teams outside NZ/SA have won a World Cup, they both now have huge issues in their domestic game. What is to prevent NZ/SA winning the next 5?

Ireland and France continuing their development.

Both sides narrowly lost tight games. I hate to say this, but this isn't like Scotland who talked ourselves up a bit and were soundly put in our place by both Ireland and South Africa.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Only 2 teams outside NZ/SA have won a World Cup, they both now have huge issues in their domestic game. What is to prevent NZ/SA winning the next 5?

I dunno, maybe it comes down to individual moments of brilliance/stupidity just like this World Cup did.

 

[ataraxia]

I swear Molehill's purposely doing this, taking the most annoyingly incorrect stance on everything. We probably deserve it anyways

 

[Bahnz]

I dunno, maybe it comes down to individual moments of brilliance/stupidity just like this World Cup did.

Seriously, I'd maybe understand this take if France and Ireland hadn't already beaten NZ and SA in this very tournament. The top 4 sides can all beat each other on their day. Just happened to fall the way of the SH sides this week.

Also, the NH sides have clearly been gaining ground on the SH for some time. Compare this WC to 2015 when the NH sides were waaay off the pace. Not to mention their teams have been bossing it at the U20 World Cups for the past 5 years.

 

[Molehill]

Ireland and France continuing their development.

Both sides narrowly lost tight games. I hate to say this, but this isn't like Scotland who talked ourselves up a bit and were soundly put in our place by both Ireland and South Africa.

My question is whether this is continuing development or the best they'll manage? It feels like nearing the end of the cycle for Ireland, and lets not forget that 4 of their backs are NZ/Aus anyway.

I really hope in 4 years time we're discussing 3 N Hemisphere teams in the semis, but I just can't see it happening.

 

[Molehill]

Seriously, I'd maybe understand this take if France and Ireland hadn't already beaten NZ and SA in this very tournament. The top 4 sides can all beat each other on their day. Just happened to fall the way of the SH sides this week.

Also, the NH sides have clearly been gaining ground on the SH for some time. Compare this WC to 2015 when the NH sides were waaay off the pace. Not to mention their teams have been bossing it at the U20 World Cups for the past 5 years.

But is that a coincidence? 5 World Cups on the trot would suggest otherwise.

Fair point about the Under 20's, France destroyed everyone I think in the last one.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

My question is whether this is continuing development or the best they'll manage?

Nobody knows, that's what makes sports fun op

 

[Flem274*]

France - SA was 50/50 and Ireland - NZ was 55/45 to Ireland.

The coin went up and landed Southern Hemisphere. Unlucky but I saw nothing in these games to dispel the notion that these are the top 4 sides in the world, probably with France still the best but not by enough that they will always beat SA.

The other side of the draw might well pull finger and win because NZ fans are well aware of what Argentina can do and England should be a good team, because World Cups don't always reward the best in the world but the best on the day.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I thought Ireland had a pretty good youth/school rugby system?

It produces a decent amount of quality considering the relatively shallow player pool.

They're massively reliant on the Dublin/Leinster fee-paying school system. Blackrock College and St Michael's College the two traditional hotbeds. Something like one in five Irish professionals went to one of them.

I think I read that 17 of the WC squad played their junior rugby in Leinster and the next biggest supplier was Australasia with 5.

 

[Furball]

But is that a coincidence? 5 World Cups on the trot would suggest otherwise.

Fair point about the Under 20's, France destroyed everyone I think in the last one.

It's not a coincidence that the two best rugby nations in New Zealand and South Africa win the bulk of the world cups. Just like it's not a coincidence that the best 5 footballing nations win the bulk of the world cups between them.

The gap between New Zealand, South Africa, France and Ireland at the moment is pretty much non existent, and the rub of the green just happened to go to the two southern hemisphere nations.

 

[Furball]

It produces a decent amount of quality considering the relatively shallow player pool.

They're massively reliant on the Dublin/Leinster fee-paying school system. Blackrock College and St Michael's College the two traditional hotbeds. Something like one in five Irish professionals went to one of them.

I think I read that 17 of the WC squad played their junior rugby in Leinster and the next biggest supplier was Australasia with 5.

To be fair Ulster also has a pretty decent rugby scene.