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Quarter Finals

A

Ali TT

International Debutant
New Zealand are the only country that are consistently top of the pack. The rest tend to rotate around. SA were not the best side going into any of their WC wins yet just peaked perfectly. In the middle of WC cycles they've often fallen back a way behind NZ and even the Aussies up to the last few years.

It's hard to know why France, Ireland and (a few years back) Wales have never quite got over the line at WCs, although France have made the final 3 times. They've all been good enough. However, it's not the only measure of NH v SH. They play a lot of times in-between.

What could be a more worrying future is if Australia and, if the domestic decline continues, England can't return to past levels of performance.

Anyhow I can't agree with the prediction that NZ and SA will win the next 5. Portugal will be victorious in 2043, mark my words...
 
Furball

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Ali TT said:
New Zealand are the only country that are consistently top of the pack. The rest tend to rotate around. SA were not the best side going into any of their WC wins yet just peaked perfectly. In the middle of WC cycles they've often fallen back a way behind NZ and even the Aussies up to the last few years.

It's hard to know why France, Ireland and (a few years back) Wales have never quite got over the line at WCs, although France have made the final 3 times. They've all been good enough. However, it's not the only measure of NH v SH. They play a lot of times in-between.

What could be a more worrying future is if Australia and, if the domestic decline continues, England can't return to past levels of performance.

Anyhow I can't agree with the prediction that NZ and SA will win the next 5. Portugal will be victorious in 2043, mark my words...
Click to expand...
I include South Africa in the top 2 because I think they're the only other country other than New Zealand that has the proper rugby infrastructure and culture in place to consistently produce good players.

You could probably put together a fairly decent XV of New Zealand or South African raised players who don't represent their country of birth.
 
Molehill

Molehill

International Captain
Furball said:
I include South Africa in the top 2 because I think they're the only other country other than New Zealand that has the proper rugby infrastructure and culture in place to consistently produce good players.

You could probably put together a fairly decent XV of New Zealand or South African raised players who don't represent their country of birth.
Click to expand...
Agree with all that. Somewhat ironic therefore that I think England currently don't have a single player born in those 2 countries in their squad.
 
Molehill

Molehill

International Captain
Dendarii said:
David Ribbans was born and grew up in South Africa.
Click to expand...
Good spot. Having googled him, I see he actually went to the same school a good friend of mine has her boys in Somerset West - strong sporting school I guess as one of her sons currently plays in the SA U18's Hockey Squad.
 
Molehill

Molehill

International Captain
ashley bach said:
Mate you do great service to this forum and I'll always read your posts with interest.

That is, except for rugby union, where you have now officially been thrown in the bin.
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You can't say I don't generate discussion....

BTW, I had the misfortune of watching the Rugby league Grand Final on Saturday in between the two outstanding World Cup QF's. A tedious, turgid affair, I will never be convinced that League is a better watch than Union.

@Spark
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Furball said:
On another day those two things go the other way and we have 3 NH semi finalists, with neither SH powerhouse team in the semis (possibly for the first time ever?).
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Yeah. In every tournament one or both of us have made the semifinals.

Since 1995:
SA didn't make the semis in 2003 (lost to us in 1/4s)
We didn't make the semis in 2007 (lost to France in 1/4s)
SA didn't make the semis in 2011 (lost to Aus in 1/4s)



Also, as well as this year, when they were out in pool play, Australia only missed the semifinals in 1995, 2007, and 2019.
 
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A

ashley bach

International Captain
Molehill said:
You can't say I don't generate discussion....

BTW, I had the misfortune of watching the Rugby league Grand Final on Saturday in between the two outstanding World Cup QF's. A tedious, turgid affair, I will never be convinced that League is a better watch than Union.

@Spark
Click to expand...
I'm not quite sure how you come to that conclusion but can only imagine it's because you don't watch the NRL

Growing up in a rugby union culture I had basically no option other than to taste it, playing club rugby for eight years and going to a school that produced
many all blacks, some of whom were in my class. When I delivered the Herald as a kid in the morning Sean Fitzpatrick was often there to collect it and
always had a few encouraging words to say. It was close to a religion and I loved every moment of it.

Having said that though, as time has gone on I have completely changed my mind as to what is the better watch.
While those matches in the quarter finals were just magic games to watch, they are few and far in between. The world cup will always hold plenty of interest and to a much smaller degree so will super rugby. But really when it comes to entertainment league leaves union for dead as it is just non stop
action with such high quality levels of skill.

Was never able to get into British rugby league, there's something about it which I just don't like starting with the size of the in goals.
The NRL on the other hand is just a fantastic watch. Find yourself a team and start following because there's simply nothing better.
May I suggest supporting the NZ Warriors, the only team based outside Australia. Their time is hopefully coming very soon.
 
Molehill

Molehill

International Captain
ashley bach said:
I'm not quite sure how you come to that conclusion but can only imagine it's because you don't watch the NRL

Growing up in a rugby union culture I had basically no option other than to taste it, playing club rugby for eight years and going to a school that produced
many all blacks, some of whom were in my class. When I delivered the Herald as a kid in the morning Sean Fitzpatrick was often there to collect it and
always had a few encouraging words to say. It was close to a religion and I loved every moment of it.

Having said that though, as time has gone on I have completely changed my mind as to what is the better watch.
While those matches in the quarter finals were just magic games to watch, they are few and far in between. The world cup will always hold plenty of interest and to a much smaller degree so will super rugby. But really when it comes to entertainment league leaves union for dead as it is just non stop
action with such high quality levels of skill.

Was never able to get into British rugby league, there's something about it which I just don't like starting with the size of the in goals.
The NRL on the other hand is just a fantastic watch. Find yourself a team and start following because there's simply nothing better.
May I suggest supporting the NZ Warriors, the only team based outside Australia. Their time is hopefully coming very soon.
Click to expand...
I have no idea when NRL is even shown here, probably Saturday mornings at a guess when I'm usually playing golf. I vaguely follow Wigan due to them having an exciting team 30 odd years ago when I thought you just gave the ball to Offiah and he ran 80 yards to score a try with it. But I feel like some dirty Liverpool fan from nowhere near Liverpool for doing so. It's just a sport that is not played where I live and there is no local interest.

I was more on the wind up to @Spark having broached this conversation on another thread. 4 wonderful QF's and then that horrific Grand Final. Is the style of play really that different between England and the NRL? So many of the players here seem to be Aussie/Kiwi anyway.

BTW, one of my best mates is a regular golfing partner with Sean Fitzpatrick. They met at some Corporate event at Twickenham and ended up playing golf together every month. It's ironic because my mate has zero interest in rugby.....unless he's on a Corporate freebie!!
 
Molehill

Molehill

International Captain
Fuller Pilch said:
Yeah. In every tournament one or both of us have made the semifinals.

Since 1995:
SA didn't make the semis in 2003 (lost to us in 1/4s)
We didn't make the semis in 2007 (lost to France in 1/4s)
SA didn't make the semis in 2011 (lost to Aus in 1/4s)


Also, as well as this year, when they were out in pool play, Australia only missed the semifinals in 1995, 2007, and 2019.
Click to expand...
Perhaps of more note is that since 2003, there has always been one of those 2 in the Final, although surprisingly never both. Am I right in thinking that the only time SA have beaten NZ at a World Cup is 1995?

In the last 3 World Cups, from 12 semi final places, only 3 have been N Hemisphere (Eng twice and Wales).....and two of those World Cups were in the N Hemisphere!
 
T

Tom Flint

International Regular
Molehill said:
I have no idea when NRL is even shown here, probably Saturday mornings at a guess when I'm usually playing golf. I vaguely follow Wigan due to them having an exciting team 30 odd years ago when I thought you just gave the ball to Offiah and he ran 80 yards to score a try with it. But I feel like some dirty Liverpool fan from nowhere near Liverpool for doing so. It's just a sport that is not played where I live and there is no local interest.

I was more on the wind up to @Spark having broached this conversation on another thread. 4 wonderful QF's and then that horrific Grand Final. Is the style of play really that different between England and the NRL? So many of the players here seem to be Aussie/Kiwi anyway.

BTW, one of my best mates is a regular golfing partner with Sean Fitzpatrick. They met at some Corporate event at Twickenham and ended up playing golf together every month. It's ironic because my mate has zero interest in rugby.....unless he's on a Corporate freebie!!
Click to expand...
I do watch the nrl, second half starts at a decent time Saturday mornings, so I wake up and have it on before I head off to play cricket. Penrith is the team I'd back as I have family in the blue mountains. Its good fun most of the time just the plays are quite repetitive. Someone said earlier its quite stop start but I'd disagree there as the momentum of the game flows better in league. But I like the battle at the breakdown in union so that doesn't bother me. Also when playing it's great to have a breather every few minutes lol. It all comes down to opinion like everything in life. Union all day for me but each to their own.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
Molehill said:
I have no idea when NRL is even shown here, probably Saturday mornings at a guess when I'm usually playing golf. I vaguely follow Wigan due to them having an exciting team 30 odd years ago when I thought you just gave the ball to Offiah and he ran 80 yards to score a try with it. But I feel like some dirty Liverpool fan from nowhere near Liverpool for doing so. It's just a sport that is not played where I live and there is no local interest.

I was more on the wind up to @Spark having broached this conversation on another thread. 4 wonderful QF's and then that horrific Grand Final. Is the style of play really that different between England and the NRL? So many of the players here seem to be Aussie/Kiwi anyway.

BTW, one of my best mates is a regular golfing partner with Sean Fitzpatrick. They met at some Corporate event at Twickenham and ended up playing golf together every month. It's ironic because my mate has zero interest in rugby.....unless he's on a Corporate freebie!!
Click to expand...
I mean if you're going to try and make the argument to me that union is better than league then you'll get no argument from me, I don't like league and basically never have (not for a want of trying). But even if RA somehow fixed itself here the truth is that it's probably too late; much of the core heartland of the code are no longer rugby fans, they're Sydney Swans and Brisbane Lions fans aka they follow AFL instead. The former has been particularly efficient in Sydney in flipping those former rugby union areas.
 
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