*Official* Match #6- New Zealand vs Netherlands- Hyderabad, October 9th

[Prince EWS]

After the criticism of Young's dismissal as a dumb I was expecting when watching the highlights just now something more than a mistimed shot on a ball that seemed to bounce more than he expected, which was no more or less dumb than the dismissals of Conway, Philips, Chapman and even Mitchell who made the completely wrong shot selection

In a vacuum it was fine, particularly given they had so many wickets in hand, but in the context of Young's career it does represent a recurring problem of him getting out around that sort of score. Ideally you want your openers to be able to either get off to a flyer or bat through and make a ton and he's not really done either even when he's batted well (except against the Netherlands - ironically - at home). Would be less bad if he was at 4 but as an opener it's a weakness he's got. Rachin tonning up in his first go in the top order exemplified this issue a bit.

 

[jcas0167]

Just let Kane sit the tournament out as non-playing senior statesman/mentor like Old Man River in 2015.

 

[SteveNZ]

yeah I didn't really feel like making a snarky comment to @SteveNZ but I'm not sure how you can say Rachin did better than Young yesterday - particularly considering Young was the guy who actually opened the batting.

Might be the argument about him bowling though, but I really struggle with ultimately justifying our opening batsman selection on the basis that he's a (kind of crap) bowler. To me, he just goes into a pool of guys who can chip in towards 5th bowler overs, but even with him out we'll still have at least a couple of guys (Phillips, Mitchell) cranking out those trash overs.

No, I should have expanded more on what I felt after watching a lot of both guys bat. I didn't think Rachin 'did better' than Young, per se, but having watched it, it only reiterated in my mind that if there isn't a place for both (and I don't think there is, with Kane in) that it's Rachin.

Based on the scores we may/are likely to need to win this tournament, I feel like Rachin is the guy who strikes it better, who has better S/R potential, more likely to play a big innings, a match-winning innings etc. I know it's ridiculous to say but I am a cricketing muppet, it's just in the way they hit it overnight and how I've watched them hit it recently. Young almost chipped out early last night to their offie, whereas Rachin pumped him - and is pumping other guys - into the 10th row.

I'd pick Rachin over Young even without the bowling as an option.

Having said that, Rachin is a better quality than Phillips/Mitchell etc as he's shown. Our balance absolutely does benefit from him bowling.

 

[trundler]

Young at 4 would be fine. He's a middle order batsman in FC, isn't he? Rizwan bats 4 despite being an opener in domestix.

Ravindra
Conway
Williamson
Young
Latham
Mitchell
Phillips
Santner
Bowlers based on conditions
-

 

[SteveNZ]

Batting Phillips at 7 is like marrying a beautiful woman and locking her in the basement.

 

[thierry henry]

Not that I'm really drawn to rating batsmen on aesthetics or vibes, but was Rachin seen as a fast scorer/BOSHer prior to last week?

Naturally I tend to lean on statzzz, but I thought that the perception of him was of more of a stylish, proper top-order player, broadly similar to Young. That was why he wasn't seen as a good fit for the role of hitting the long ball down the order.

I'm not baulking at the idea of calling him a fast scorer, because he has a good List A strike rate. Young scores at a decent clip too. Just feels like there's a bit of an artificial distinction being drawn between "suddenly a nurdler" Young and "suddenly a BOSHmerchant" Rachin.

 

[trundler]

Batting Phillips at 7 is like marrying a beautiful woman and locking her in the basement.

I'd rather have a #5 at #7 than an opener though. I think this is a fine balance.

 

[ataraxia]

Not that I'm really drawn to rating batsmen on aesthetics or vibes, but was Rachin seen as a fast scorer/BOSHer prior to last week?

Naturally I tend to lean on statzzz, but I thought that the perception of him was of more of a stylish, proper top-order player, broadly similar to Young. That was why he wasn't seen as a good fit for the role of hitting the long ball down the order.

I'm not baulking at the idea of calling him a fast scorer, because he has a good List A strike rate. Young scores at a decent clip too. Just feels like there's a bit of an artificial distinction being drawn between "suddenly a nurdler" Young and "suddenly a BOSHmerchant" Rachin.

Rachin was always aggressive and a boundary hitter, at least by opener standards, but it's a lot more of the traditional stuff than BOSHing. This quick scoring we've seen that seems to have come from a Stead directive is about the limit of his aggression, but it also is currently seeming to hit the sweet spot in that regard.

 

[Athlai]

Not that I'm really drawn to rating batsmen on aesthetics or vibes, but was Rachin seen as a fast scorer/BOSHer prior to last week?

Naturally I tend to lean on statzzz, but I thought that the perception of him was of more of a stylish, proper top-order player, broadly similar to Young. That was why he wasn't seen as a good fit for the role of hitting the long ball down the order.

I'm not baulking at the idea of calling him a fast scorer, because he has a good List A strike rate. Young scores at a decent clip too. Just feels like there's a bit of an artificial distinction being drawn between "suddenly a nurdler" Young and "suddenly a BOSHmerchant" Rachin.

No, people thought Rachin lacked power, and ultimately both he and Young are suited to coming in during the powerplay, playing their strokes while the field is back and getting themselves set.

But also Rachin season by season does genuinely LOOK more powerful. Hes still only 23 after all.

 

[thierry henry]

This is such reverse-Kippax areas. The Chad city slicker liberal RavindraBOSH vs soy boy agribusiness noodle arms Young from the provinces.

 

[SteveNZ]

Not that I'm really drawn to rating batsmen on aesthetics or vibes, but was Rachin seen as a fast scorer/BOSHer prior to last week?

Naturally I tend to lean on statzzz, but I thought that the perception of him was of more of a stylish, proper top-order player, broadly similar to Young. That was why he wasn't seen as a good fit for the role of hitting the long ball down the order.

I'm not baulking at the idea of calling him a fast scorer, because he has a good List A strike rate. Young scores at a decent clip too. Just feels like there's a bit of an artificial distinction being drawn between "suddenly a nurdler" Young and "suddenly a BOSHmerchant" Rachin.

If I've created a narrative of Will 'scores slower than Bryan' Young v Rachin 'the racecar' Ravindra, that certainly wasn't my intention.

I think Rachin has always been a guy who can play shots, and when he has the time to get in, can accelerate really effectively. He's not a ball one bopper, but scores quickly when he's in and can take on strong opposition attacks with aggression. I'd prefer him without Kane opening, and with Kane opening. Young is by no means a nurdler, but I feel like Rachin will be able to score more effectively - especially against quality bowling. And I don't think you can ignore the failure to convert a lot of starts that Young continues to struggle with, whereas Rachin has a 97 and a 123* (OK and also a 51)

 

[Moss]

Good problem to have and at the moment there seems to be more upside to playing Ravindra over Young in the top (if it comes to choosing between them).

I have a feeling though NZ will be glad to have someone like Young in the mix as the tournament progresses and the bowling attacks get more challenging. Thinking back to 2019 where Guptill and Munro started well but towards the end they needed Nicholls to answer the call.

 

[CricAddict]

Ravindra is the second top run-scorer in the world cup at the moment along with snapping up few wickets. It will be really stupid to drop him right now. Also, next match is in Chennai where his spin can be more than useful. There is no way he is getting dropped there.

 

[Socerer 01]

they wont drop him but they may send him to 7 for team balance which will be equally stupid

 

[SteveNZ]

they wont drop him but they may send him to 7 for team balance which will be equally stupid

This would genuinely infuriate me.

 

[Flem274*]

Ravindra has always played shots until he plays one too many on like 31* but I wouldn't call him a hitter.

Will Young, as an opener at least, is batting like he did in his early FC career. His international career is very much a victim of a crowded middle order and looking like he has the technique and talent to bat out of position. He has made a respectable fist of it but it definitely damages his standing in the eyes of the public who don't realise he scored all his runs for CD at #3 and #4.

Ravindra is an opener and wants to open so I'd let him do it. I'd like to see Will Young get an extended opportunity at #4 in test cricket and in ODI cricket if he can force his way in there. More likely though I think it makes sense for him to replace Henry Nicholls in the test side and be the next in line for the ODI side.