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Garry Sobers v Imran Khan,Test Cricket:Poll

Who was the better Test cricketer: Imran or Sobers?

  • Total voters
    169
S

subshakerz

International Coach
kyear2 said:
Well you do have him later down the top 10 that some of us do, and in a lower tier.

Even then I don't see him lower than say 7th ish. 🤷🏾‍♂️
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I probably would have him 7 to 8 too.

Looks like I am getting your treatment in the other Imran thread hehe
 
S

subshakerz

International Coach
Slifer said:
No you started with the illogical argument implying that somehow Sachin was great but Lara wasn't because of some mid career slump. A slump everyone goes through. Then I simply elaborated on why that comment was bs. "Lara was missing something IMO. He just didn't give off the greatness vibes that Tendulkar did." You're yet to show me what Lara was missing and where he lacked in greatness. I used Sachin because that's who you compared him to.
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I demonstrated Lara reached a worse point due to his own making.
 
S

subshakerz

International Coach
kyear2 said:
The dichotomy between Sobers and Imran is glaring. They are both all rounders at the very peak of what the sport has produced, but the differences between them couldn't be more stark.
One was the pinnacle of the bowling all rounder, ATG fast bowler while being a good lower order batsman and a captain of note.
The other one of the greatest batsmen ever, who was an over utilized but versatile and more than capable change bowler, who also happened to be one of the greatest slip and overall fielders of all time.

In a generic comparison between equally matched opponents in their primary skill, I would always lean bowler as I believe they are more important. Though ironically I rate lower order batting not as highly as most and at best on par with the other secondary skills in utility and practice.
I however believe that Sobers was slightly better and is more highly rated as a batsman than Imran is as a bowler. Sobers is a genuine top 3 candidate for best batsman after Bradman, while I and most don't quite rate Imran as a top candidate as the best bowler ever. Similarly Sobers walks into an ATG XI as a batsman alone, while Imran would struggle to do so based purely on his merits as a specialist bowler.

As far as their secondary skills go I feel like both are over played to a degree and both took advantage of captaincy to their benefit.

Though there were times that the bowling depth was so bad that Worrell had to open the bowling, it does appear that he was genuinely over bowled (or genuinely over bowled himself), seemingly more often that than not, as a stock bowler, sometimes bowling twice the amount of overs as the opening attack and to modest results, only 3 genuine match winning 5 wickets hauls with the ball.

There was an analysis earlier in the thread stating that Imran didn't have any match winning innings, which devolved into an argument about what constituted a match winning innings, with the argument being that match saving innings should be included. What I will say is that from his hundreds scored only one resulted in a win and it was an innings where there were 3 other hundreds scored.

What definitively separates the two for me is their tertiary skills.
I've said that I rate and value Sir Garry's slip catching higher than I do his bowling, and at most he should have been utilized similar to how Kallis was. His role in an ATG XI would be to bat, take everything at 2nd and bowl the occasional spell to rest the primary guys. To quote "he was in the league of Hammond and Simpson in the slips", can't get much better than that.
What makes a great captain is very subjective and there have been advocates and detractors in this thread. What I will say is that it can be broken down into 3 aspects. Win- loss record, great tactical ability and great leadership and the ability to encourage and unite a team. From most reports his strong point was the latter, and while it would have served Pakistan brilliantly it's harder to tangibly measure and potentially less transferable. He did manage to bring Pakistan together to challenge the greatest team of the era and assisted with the development of his fast bowling successors. His role in an ATG XI, which he easily makes for CW, would be that of first change bowler, utilizing his mastery of reverse swing, a no. 8 batsman and possibly an inspirational vice captain to the Don.

All in all, I believe that Sobers has a slight edge in primary skills, the're a wash with regards to the secondary, and with Sir Garry more definitively taking the tertiary skills and the overall contest in my humble opinion.
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I agree with most of this surprisingly. I do think you still don't give Imran the bat enough credit though.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Prince EWS said:
Cricket itself doesn't actually matter. Not every thread here has to be for you. It definitely does what it says in the title so if you don't like it just don't ****ing open it.
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Wonder why that is not the response for player comparisons or gs Kohli thread complaints?
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
subshakerz said:
I agree with most of this surprisingly. I do think you still don't give Imran the bat enough credit though.
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Don't think I impressed SCC with my take on Sober's bowling either.

The thing is that as far as all rounders go, they were clearly the best with regards to the secondary discipline, with both serving valuable roles for their teams. But compared to specialists both were pretty ordinary tbh.

The comparison between the two has Imran's raw numbers looking slightly more impressive, with Sobers actually having more match winning performances, wash...
 
S

subshakerz

International Coach
kyear2 said:
Don't think I impressed SCC with my take on Sober's bowling either.

The thing is that as far as all rounders go, they were clearly the best with regards to the secondary discipline, with both serving valuable roles for their teams. But compared to specialists both were pretty ordinary tbh.

The comparison between the two has Imran's raw numbers looking slightly more impressive, with Sobers actually having more match winning performances, wash...
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I agree Imran's batting is inflated slightly, but to me it's impressive enough to average mid-30s in the 80s. And once you look deeper, you will see the amount of times Imran's batting dug Pakistan out of a hole. You don't acknowledge that.
 
ataraxia

ataraxia

International Coach
subshakerz said:
I agree Imran's batting is inflated slightly, but to me it's impressive enough to average mid-30s in the 80s. And once you look deeper, you will see the amount of times Imran's batting dug Pakistan out of a hole. You don't acknowledge that.
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He averaged mid-40s in the 80s.

And 49 if you take the 80s as 81–90. Just by the way.
 
S

subshakerz

International Coach
ataraxia said:
He averaged mid-40s in the 80s.

And 49 if you take the 80s as 81–90. Just by the way.
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Yup I am not downplaying that. I consider him overall a 35-esque bat, which to me was good enough to be in any side in the world at that time, possibly even the WI.

Imran has two tours of England, two tours of Australia and tour of India and NZ where he scored well in the 80s onwards. He wasn't this fair-weather bat.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
subshakerz said:
I agree Imran's batting is inflated slightly, but to me it's impressive enough to average mid-30s in the 80s. And once you look deeper, you will see the amount of times Imran's batting dug Pakistan out of a hole. You don't acknowledge that.
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That I have noticed, but there were also marathon efforts by Sobers trying to keep his team in games as well, saw a 44 over spell (of hopefully spin) that all contributed to the team's success. They were both good in their roles.
 
S

subshakerz

International Coach
kyear2 said:
That I have noticed, but there were also marathon efforts by Sobers trying to keep his team in games as well, saw a 44 over spell (of hopefully spin) that all contributed to the team's success. They were both good in their roles.
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Yes. Imran and Sobers are the only two bowling and batting allrounders that could occupy regular spots based on secondary skill.

In fact, when Imran was injured as a bowler in the mid-80s, he did exactly that.
 
P

Patience and Accuracy+Gut

State Vice-Captain
subshakerz said:
Yes. Imran and Sobers are the only two bowling and batting allrounders that could occupy regular spots based on secondary skill.

In fact, when Imran was injured as a bowler in the mid-80s, he did exactly that.
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They aren’t the only 2,Wilfred Rhodes played as a specialist Batsman and Bowler for the team as well.
And in terms of secondary skill Miller is ahead of both Sobers and Imran.
 
shortpitched713

shortpitched713

International Captain
My gut says Imran the greatest all-rounder of all time. But Sobers pips him in the stakes for greatest cricketer of all time. And that just comes down to their primary skill.
 
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