Kapil Dev vs Imran Khan

[ma1978]

Imran by that stage was a batting allrounder batting in the top 4, not a specialist bowler. So taking a wicket a game as support for Wasim/Waqar while averaging 38 with the bat was very good.

Kapil was still a bowling allrounder but averaging 19 with the bat was worse.

my recollection of the early 90s was that Imran was basically in the team as the captain, and while he certainly heldhis own with the bat, there was a lot of talent sitting on the bench in Pakistan and were he not this iconic captain,he would have had real competition for that spot.

Kapil was the only thing resembling a decent pace bowler India bat until 1992 or so

 

[trundler]

Imran by that stage was a batting allrounder batting in the top 4, not a specialist bowler. So taking a wicket a game as support for Wasim/Waqar while averaging 38 with the bat was very good.

Kapil was still a bowling allrounder but averaging 19 with the bat was worse.

Yeah Imran was a lot better than part timer and good enough to bowl his quota. Very good 5th bowler + proper batsman. Whereas Kapil was an merely good frontline bowler averaging 27 which isn't special for the era and not a top 7 quality batsman. Don't even think he's a legitimate AR for that period tbh.

 

[trundler]

my recollection of the early 90s was that Imran was basically in the team as the captain, and while he certainly heldhis own with the bat, there was a lot of talent sitting on the bench in Pakistan and were he not this iconic captain,he would have had real competition for that spot.

Kapil was the only thing resembling a decent pace bowler India bat until 1992 or so

Incorrect about Imran. You're just overvaluing Kapil because India sucked.

 

[ma1978]

Yeah Imran was a lot better than part timer and good enough to bowl his quota. Very good 5th bowler + proper batsman. Whereas Kapil was an merely good frontline bowler averaging 27 which isn't special for the era and not a top 7 quality batsman. Don't even think he's a legitimate AR for that period tbh.

iCC ranked number one all rounder for 10 years

 

[trundler]

iCC ranked number one all rounder for 10 years

See also: Gower and Weasels.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

iCC ranked number one all rounder for 10 years

Only Allrounder to Breach 600 points
Rank 1 for 10 years
Wisden's ODI Player of the Decade

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

See also: Gower and Weasels.

Wisden Cricketer of 80s

See Also : Sachin and Viv

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah Imran was a lot better than part timer and good enough to bowl his quota. Very good 5th bowler + proper batsman. Whereas Kapil was an merely good frontline bowler averaging 27 which isn't special for the era and not a top 7 quality batsman. Don't even think he's a legitimate AR for that period tbh.

Good point. Kapil's 27 average was pretty standard for a reasonable middle of the road seamer, not someone worldclass.

 

[trundler]

Wisden Cricketer of 80s

See Also : Sachin and Viv

Shame about his record after 1987 which puts Imran far ahead.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Shame about his record after 1987 which puts Imran far ahead.

Really?

Next 4 years ( 1988-91)
Kapil Dev
23 with Ball, 20 With Bat

 

[trundler]

Really?

Next 4 years ( 1988-91)
Kapil Dev
23 with Ball, 20 With Bat

You know the correct stats I'm talking about.

If we're doing selected time slots then Imran averaged 30/21 from Kapil's debut until 1987.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

You know the correct stats I'm talking about.

If we're doing selected time slots then Imran averaged 30/21 from Kapil's debut until 1987.

Imran averaged 30 with bat
Kapil averaged 29

Difference is Kapil scored 8 more 50+ scores in just 23 innings and his SR was 34 points higher..!!!

Its a huge difference.

SR difference between Kallis and Jayasuriya is just 18 points.. And we know the real difference in impact.. Here it is 34 points.

 

[subshakerz]

Imran averaged 30 with bat
Kapil averaged 29

Difference is Kapil scored 8 more 50+ scores in just 23 innings and his SR was 34 points higher..!!!

Its a huge difference.

SR difference between Kallis and Jayasuriya is just 18 points.. And we know the real difference in impact.. Here it is 34 points.

Yes and what about the bowling difference? We are going in circles because you want to ignore Imran's obvious advantages.

You do first part of their careers, Imran is far ahead as a bowler and therefore better.

You do later part of their career, Imran is far ahead as a bat and therefore better.

Nothing you have said has rebutted that.

 

[trundler]

Yes and what about the bowling difference? We are going in circles because you want to ignore Imran's obvious advantages.

You do first part of their careers, Imran is far ahead as a bowler and therefore better.

You do later part of their career, Imran is far ahead as a bat and therefore better.

Nothing you have said has rebutted that.

Imran has more 50s in 50 fewer games overall but that doesn't count. Same number of 4fers and 5fers as Kapil too. More MOTM performances in fewer games despite being a low impact player. Amazing.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Imran has more 50s in 50 fewer games overall but that doesn't count. Same number of 4fers and 5fers as Kapil too. More MOTM performances in fewer games despite being a low impact player. Amazing.

Kallis has more MOTM than Ponting

 

[trundler]

Sounds like Jayasuriya vs Kallis comparison.

More like Flintoff Vs Afridi.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

More like Flintoff Vs Afridi.

Number of MOTM awards make Kallis one of the GOAT ODI Cricketer.. Which he was not

 

[trundler]

Number of MOTM awards make Kallis one of the GOAT ODI Cricketer.. Which he was not

He was very good until 2002 before which he won most MOTM awards and was left behind in the dust when run rates picked up in the early 2000s. Not the case with Imran obviously. You keep trying to make him out to be a slow batsman but his strike rate is the same as Dean ****ing Jones.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

He was very good until 2002 before which he won most MOTM awards and was left behind in the dust when run rates picked up in the early 2000s. Not the case with Imran obviously. You keep trying to make him out to be a slow batsman but his strike rate is the same as Dean ****ing Jones.

And Kapil's SR was incomparable.

Also his peak rating, 10 year Ranking, Wisden Cricketer of the decade, World records in both departments..
If MOTM can be used to determine greater player, why not Rankings and Wisden recognition?

 

[trundler]

And Kapil's SR was incomparable.

Also his peak rating, 10 year Ranking, Wisden Cricketer of the decade, World records in both departments..
If MOTM can be used to determine greater player, why not Rankings and Wisden recognition?

MOTM was used to counter the farcical notion that Imran's record flatters him because he had low impact. Simply not true. Everything else I've responded to. You keep dodging the point about Imran being a vastly superior bowler if we ignore his batting AR phase and vastly superior batsman if we don't while being equally good in the other department so I'm going to exit this discussion now unless you have something to counter that.