Will ATG XI games be low scoring or high scoring affairs?

[kyear2]

So basically, don't see those attacks going for 400 plus

 

[subshakerz]

Actually, that's not even a hunch. Matches between Bangladesh and Zimbabwe are generally lower scoring than those between the top tier Test sides.

To me this is apples and oranges. Being able to stay long enough in the crease is a skill they lack which means they will get out often themselves due to loose strokes or poor technique rather than the bowlers surpassing them in skill.

In non-minnow cricket there is more of a balance generally.

 

[subshakerz]

So basically, don't see those attacks going for 400 plus

I am speculating, but it could be a situation where the slightest favor of the pitch results in a massive advantage for either bats or bowlers as you have an entire lineup pressing an advantage.

So a relatively placid wicket could result in 500 plus scores and a sporting wicket may see them all skittled for less than 200. There may be very few evenly balanced 300-300 games.

 

[subshakerz]

I think though overall the reason I favor low scoring is that for any bat to score a century, they would basically need to score something approaching the greatest innings of their career given the quality of bowling. The odds of that happening regularly are quite low.

Whereas the bowlers can each grab 2-3 wickets and still bowl out the ATG XI comfortably. Any bowler off his rhythm can be immediately replaced with an ATG pacer or spinner without any let up.

 

[Red]

They’ll try to take to Symonds but he’ll jag a few key wickets

 

[_00_deathscar]

I am speculating, but it could be a situation where the slightest favor of the pitch results in a massive advantage for either bats or bowlers as you have an entire lineup pressing an advantage.

So a relatively placid wicket could result in 500 plus scores and a sporting wicket may see them all skittled for less than 200. There may be very few evenly balanced 300-300 games.

On the other hand, bat deep and teams stacked with ATGs means that a 150/7 could easily turn into a 300 score because you have bats that could potentially always put a 30-40 on the board

 

[subshakerz]

On the other hand, bat deep and teams stacked with ATGs means that a 150/7 could easily turn into a 300 score because you have bats that could potentially always put a 30-40 on the board

I don't see it happening often. Tail wagging usually relies on playing out tough bowlers and targeting weaker ones but that isn't an option against an ATG XI.

 

[Socerer 01]

On the other hand, bat deep and teams stacked with ATGs means that a 150/7 could easily turn into a 300 score because you have bats that could potentially always put a 30-40 on the board

depends on who you pick for the tail as some of these atgs are bad with the bat or were lucky to have played when cricket was played at a lesser intensity

 

[centurymaker]

Bradman gonna inflate the otherwise humble scores.

Nah he would have never faced a wholesome hostile attack like that of an ATG calibre, including freak spinners Warne/Murali. So I doubt he would be 1.5 times better (like his FC stats suggest avg 60 v avg 90).

 

[centurymaker]

I believe definitely low scoring.

Over the history of the game, I believe that great bowling has impacted great batsmen more than the other way round. Especially the faster guys. And hunting in packs like this, seriously believe that these games will be low scoring affairs

Test Cricket is a bowler's game.

Batsmen typically only put away 'bad/poor' balls. They wait for mistakes and they wait to prey on weaker bowlers or tiring bowlers, they play out the new ball, the good bowlers etc etc. If bowling lineup has 5 ATG bowlers and the attack is relentless, I doubt ATG batsmen have much hope of posting a big total on a fair pitch. Large majority of the time, scores will be low.

 

[Bolo.]

I don't see it happening often. Tail wagging usually relies on playing out tough bowlers and targeting weaker ones but that isn't an option against an ATG XI.

Tail wagging usually relies on tiring bowlers and conditions easing up, plus a bit of luck. Tail is still going to wag a bit, with the caveat that like the bats, they score less against quality bowlers.

The worse a tailender is, the less severe the impact of quality bowlers is likely to be, because luck accounts for a bigger proportion of their runs. Chris Martin is as likely to snick a 4 off an ATG as he is off... Chris Martin. And it doesn't matter that much how good you are if you get something about unplayable.

Spin may even things up a bit though- less fatigue, pace on the ball etc. Steeper curve making runs off a spinner compared to a quick. More quicks than spinners though.

 

[subshakerz]

Tail wagging usually relies on tiring bowlers and conditions easing up, plus a bit of luck. Tail is still going to wag a bit, with the caveat that like the bats, they score less against quality bowlers.

The worse a tailender is, the less severe the impact of quality bowlers is likely to be, because luck accounts for a bigger proportion of their runs. Chris Martin is as likely to snick a 4 off an ATG as he is off... Chris Martin. And it doesn't matter that much how good you are if you get something about unplayable.

Spin may even things up a bit though- less fatigue, pace on the ball etc. Steeper curve making runs off a spinner compared to a quick. More quicks than spinners though.

Will the batting last long enough to get the bowlers tired though?

 

[Socerer 01]

it should be low unless its a batting pitch if teams play traditional cricket

they may not though and instead try Bazballing it because every batsman is good enough to pull it off in which case it will be somewhat high

 

[Coronis]

it should be low unless its a batting pitch if teams play traditional cricket

they may not though and instead try Bazballing it because every batsman is good enough to pull it off in which case it will be somewhat high

Can imagine certain ATG lineups thriving like this, having several naturally aggressive batsmen with a few more defensive players to anchor it. e.g Headley with Viv and Lara.

Ironically England’s ATG XI would probs have the most trouble with this… most of their greatest bats have relatively low SR’s.

 

[trundler]

You guys are saying ATG matches would be a lower scoring affair based on great batsmen averaging low 40s against great attacks but surely a great batting lineup would offset that somewhat. You guys are also understanding how helpless bowlers are against great batsmen on roads. When you have Sobers and Gilchrist at 6/7, top order collapses will be arrested more often than not except on green tops. A better way to go about this would be to look at how great batting lineups fared against bowling attacks. With context, of course. 2011 Ponting and Smith batting together wasn't a great lineup.

 

[Coronis]

You guys are saying ATG matches would be a lower scoring affair based on great batsmen averaging low 40s against great attacks but surely a great batting lineup would offset that somewhat. You guys are also understanding how helpless bowlers are against great batsmen on roads. When you have Sobers and Gilchrist at 6/7, top order collapses will be arrested more often than not except on green tops. A better way to go about this would be to look at how great batting lineups fared against bowling attacks. With context, of course. 2011 Ponting and Smith batting together wasn't a great lineup.

Well looking at the Aus teams of the 90’s/00’s and the Windies of the 80’s the best attacks they would’ve faced would’ve been SA (maybe late 90’s Windies?) and for the Windies idk - didn’t Wasim and Waqar mostly arrive after their dominance? Australia had Lillee in the early 80’s and Pak/NZ had Imran and Hadlee. So probs a decent look at those matches home and away would give some sort of idea.

 

[Bolo.]

Will the batting last long enough to get the bowlers tired though?

Plenty often, yes. The bowlers are seeing their SRs go up pretty substantially vs an ATG batting unit. Even if you want to be generous and say they will strike at 60, that's still 100 overs to knock a side over on average (assuming 10 bowler wickets). You would want your 3 frontline quicks bowling 30+ overs in an innings pretty frequently if they had the juice. Sometimes a lot more.