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Debuted 2000 onwards national XIs

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
That's because Prior played in significantly better batting conditions for a stronger England team. I think if Prior played in the difficult 2017-2021 period he wouldn't have done any better than Bairstow, but on the regular flat tracks that Prior was provided with, Bairstow has him completely outgunned. Bairstow before his leg break was a net positive keeper in test cricket. I will select the better keeper only if the better batter was dire with the gloves over a longer period of time.

And also, the gloves affecting Bairstow's batting is an urban legend. Bairstow averages more with the gloves than without.
I know it doesn't make much difference to Bairstow, but it does to many others (Sangakkara for example). What would Prior have averaged with the bat if he didn't keep?

Part of the reason England were such a strong team was because of Prior - he helped win an Ashes in Australia. Bairstow managed to help us not win one in England. For those 2 Tests alone he can't be considered.
 

BazBall21

International Captain
I know it doesn't make much difference to Bairstow, but it does to many others (Sangakkara for example). What would Prior have averaged with the bat if he didn't keep?

Part of the reason England were such a strong team was because of Prior - he helped win an Ashes in Australia. Bairstow managed to help us not win one in England. For those 2 Tests alone he can't be considered.
Yeah but I don't think they would have been any weaker if Bairstow was the WK/Bat instead of Prior. If Bairstow this summer was that bad with the gloves before, I would definitely be more hesitant to pick him but he was generally fine with the gloves and Prior was poor with the gloves early on in his career if we're going to cherry-pick little periods. On eye test, Prior probably wouldn't have averaged much more without the gloves. It's not like he had to worry about batting shortly after keeping too.
 

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah but I don't think they would have been any weaker if Bairstow was the WK/Bat instead of Prior. If Bairstow this summer was that bad with the gloves before, I would definitely be more hesitant to pick him but he was generally fine with the gloves and Prior was poor with the gloves early on in his career if we're going to cherry-pick little periods. On eye test, Prior probably wouldn't have averaged much more without the gloves. It's not like he had to worry about batting shortly after keeping too.
Bairstow literally cost us an Ashes series - that's unforgivable.

Also, intrigued as to why you think Prior played on flatter pitches. You'd say the last 2 years (when Bairstow has improved his average considerably) have been far more batsman friendly in England.
 

BazBall21

International Captain
Bairstow literally cost us an Ashes series - that's unforgivable.

Also, intrigued as to why you think Prior played on flatter pitches. You'd say the last 2 years (when Bairstow has improved his average considerably) have been far more batsman friendly in England.
2017-2021 was one of the most bowler-friendly periods in test cricket history. Prior's career overlapped with one of the most batsman-friendly periods in test cricket history. And English pitches in both eras were no exceptions to the global norms. The runs-per-wicket in tests Bairstow has featured in is very low.
 

andruid

Cricketer Of The Year
1. David Obuya
2. Irfan Karim (wk)
3. Morris Ouma
4. Tanmay Mishra
5. Rakep Patel
6. Collins Obuya
7. Nelson Odhiambo
8. Shem Ngoche
9. Nehemiah Odhiambo
10. Alfred Luseno
11. Hiren Varaiya

The bulk of our golden generation debuted between 1996 and 1999
 

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
2017-2021 was one of the most bowler-friendly periods in test cricket history. Prior's career overlapped with one of the most batsman-friendly periods in test cricket history. And English pitches in both eras were no exceptions to the global norms. The runs-per-wicket in tests Bairstow has featured in is very low.
Maybe batsmen just weren't very good from 2017-21?
 

BazBall21

International Captain
Maybe batsmen just weren't very good from 2017-21?
Think it's possible for there to be a few factors at play. It's arguable that was one of them. But I don't think it's valid to say that's the only reason. There is actually evidence that seam movement increased.
 

Silver Silva

International Regular
West Indies ODI XI for the 2000's and beyond..

I'd implement a batdeep Bazball style :

1.Shai Hope (WK)
2.Evin Lewis
3.Ramnaresh Sarwan
4.Shimron Hetmyer
5.Nicholas Pooran
6.Dwayne Bravo
7.Jason Holder
8.Andre Russell
9.Alzarri Joseph
10.Sunil Narine
11.Akeal Hosein
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
NZ ODI

Conway/Ryder
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Elliott/Mitchell
B McCullum (wk)
Oram
Santner
Mills
Bond
Boult

(Styris debuted in 99 so missed out)
Ryder averaged 33 (with a decent sr) and obviously didn't achieve what he could have, where Baz averaged 3 runs less over a much longer career but his career was essentially 3 parts and that final run as a 100+sr opener was literally game changing for the side.
LConway's played 18 matches/scored less than a thousand runs (Mitchell sub 1000 too). He'll probably take top spot by the time he's finished but for me:

Guptill
McCullum+
Williamson
Taylor
Latham
Elliott
Oram
Santner
Henry
Bond
Boult
 

morgieb

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Oz ODI side would probably look something like:

1. David Warner
2. Shane Watson
3. Steve Smith
4. Michael Clarke
5. George Bailey
6. Brad Haddin
7. Glenn Maxwell
8. Mitchell Johnson
9. Mitchell Starc
10. Brett Lee
11. Adam Zampa

Hazlewood very very unlucky. Haddin/Carey is close. Not thrilled by Bailey at 5 but can't really think of a better option while ensuring everyone stays in their best positions (i.e. I don't think picking Finch and moving everyone else down one works). Had Faulkner not lost the plot he would've been a lock....
 

Bitmap

State Vice-Captain
Oz ODI side would probably look something like:

1. David Warner
2. Shane Watson
3. Steve Smith
4. Michael Clarke
5. George Bailey
6. Brad Haddin
7. Glenn Maxwell
8. Mitchell Johnson
9. Mitchell Starc
10. Brett Lee
11. Adam Zampa

Hazlewood very very unlucky. Haddin/Carey is close. Not thrilled by Bailey at 5 but can't really think of a better option while ensuring everyone stays in their best positions (i.e. I don't think picking Finch and moving everyone else down one works). Had Faulkner not lost the plot he would've been a lock....
Mike Hussey surely walks into this side
 

Bitmap

State Vice-Captain
Indian ODI XI

Rohit Sharma
Shikhar Dhawan
Virat Kohli
Yuvraj Singh
Suresh Raina
MS Dhoni+
Ravindra Jadeja
Bhuvneshwar Kumar
Zaheer Khan
Yuzvendra Chahal
Jasprit Bumrah
 

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