Eng & Aus Docked Slow Over Rate Points 2023-2025 cycle

[Howe_zat]

Haha nobody actually cares about the WTC though do they?

I think it's sad. I'd like to, but **** like this keeps getting in the way.

 

[sledger]

It reminds me a lot of my driving test.

"Well, you have passed but that one of the worst passes I have ever seen. I'm afraid you have been docked points for the WTC"

"Well I passed, so I don't really give a ****, woohoo. Well the only thing that actually matters in test cricket is the series we just played in, so who gives a ****"

 

[Daemon]

I get what you're doing but neither of these things are true.

It's not the same for all teams for a bunch of reasons. Obviously the ratio of seamers to spinners plays a role first. Then you have the wildly different reasons teams might be slowing the over rate.

Another minor point is that it could also be something to do with the arseload of exceptions around the count like injuries, rain delays, umpires checking for bad light and the other dozen ones. If you have a lot of these, how is it being timed? Is it being timed consistently? How much of it exactly is the bowling team's fault? I'm sure the same people who buggered up which ball is which age in this test never make a mistake with it. And this isn't the same for both teams because all these things are more likely to happen in countries with interruptions and in long series. And there's no way to know what the deal is beforehand. Most people here would have had no idea England were going to get pinged nearly twice as hard as Australia. The most common complaint I saw about over rates was the third day at the Oval where England were batting all day.

And this is before you get to the kind of slowing tactics the batting team can use which if you've ever seen the Cardiff 2009 test you know are considerable.

But the major point is consider this - the over rates are always crazy slow at the back end of a one-day innings... but only if it's close. It might be because they're deliberately wasting time, but it might be because they're trying to be active in the game and playing with a real intesisty at all times with fielding changes and actually trying to get the batsmen out.

A slow over rate could be time-wasting, or it could be a symptom of high-energy, intense Test cricket. Most people can tell the difference and will get aggrieved when they see it. In this series, England did a lot more of the latter, and are being punished for it. That's where the whole part-timers argument comes from. Putting over rates as the most important thing a bowling side can do correctly actively goes against any experience of engaging with Tests properly.

Noted, I was trolling (take me mods)

 

[ParwazHaiJunoon]

Most people here would have had no idea England were going to get pinged nearly twice as hard as Australia

Over rate penalties don't apply if bowling side bowls out opposition inside 80 overs.
Aus played >80overs 7 times in this series while only 3 Eng innings lasted more than 80 overs.
That's why Aus didn't get more deductions.

 

[ParwazHaiJunoon]

Why can't more effort be spent on actually tackling delays in game? Have a timer per delivery and then no ball the bowler if it goes over.

Award 5 runs to batting team or deduct 5 runs from bowling team total for each over short at the end of day.
It's a bit like T20 where bowling team is forced to have an extra fielder inside the ring in death overs for each over short.

 

[Molehill]

I think it's sad. I'd like to, but **** like this keeps getting in the way.

Yeah, that's kind of where I am with it. It's not a daft concept, but it's hard to take it seriously at the moment....and clearly a number of teams don't either.

 

[shortpitched713]

The authorities have spent decades trying to fix this yet the situation gets worse. They fined captains but the financial punishment was never severe enough, then they suspended players but that just deprived fans of seeing the players they pay to see. This points punishment only means anything if teams consider the WTC more important than winning individual series and that's clearly not going to be the case for the Ashes and probably not for many other series. However, if the ICC wants to make the WTC important it can't end up with the best teams missing out because of points deductions.

Why can't more effort be spent on actually tackling delays in game? Have a timer per delivery and then no ball the bowler if it goes over.

I think in game run penalty, at the end of innings, but being updated in real time ( for final innings competitiveness purposes ), is going to end up being the best solution, as foreign as it seems.

Shouldn't be too hard to math out either what the exact run penalty should be. Hopefully they put this into place soon, because this Ashes series was more than a bit farcical in this respect.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Over rate penalties don't apply if bowling side bowls out opposition inside 80 overs.
Aus played >80overs 7 times in this series while only 3 Eng innings lasted more than 80 overs.
That's why Aus didn't get more deductions.

It's absurd tho. Eng got bowled out inside 80 overs bot because of Aus bowling but their batting style.

It was England strategy tho especially in a rain-affected match that if they make runs quickly it meant they got more overs to get Aus bowled out.

 

[Nas207]

It didnt feel like Eng was that much worse than Australia. How many overs did both teams manage every hour on average?

 

[mackembhoy]

"Suddenly now"...?

Been watching cricket for 30 years and this has been an issue for at least all that length of time

Well I'm coming of the back of England deducted more points in one series than every side in the world for the previous two WTC.

I've been watching 20 years, but I didn't really understand the over rates when I was 10-11

 

[Molehill]

It didnt feel like Eng was that much worse than Australia. How many overs did both teams manage every hour on average?

It wasn't any worse, in fact I think Australia were fined more points per match (10 in two fines) than England were (19 in 4). The difference was the 80/160 over rule which meant Aus escaped fines in 2 Tests despite their over rate being no quicker.

 

[trundler]

'Umpires shouldn't make decisions because they get things wrong sometimes' is a wild take. The only thing the ball change fiasco proves is that Joel Wilson and Kumar Dharmasena are incompetent. Shocker.

 

[Ali TT]

Well I'm coming of the back of England deducted more points in one series than every side in the world for the previous two WTC.

I've been watching 20 years, but I didn't really understand the over rates when I was 10-11

I started watching the game when fast bowlers still started their run-ups in the next town over and sides gave up about 50 no-balls a day so over rates weren't always great.

In the end presumably what everyone wants is the game to be played at a decent pace that avoids any cheating through time-wasting and ensures good entertainment. If post match punishments don't manage that then need to move to something in-game.

Someone said that in football you'd never deduct points from a side for taking throw-ins more slowly. Exactly, you'd penalise them in the match by reversing the throw-in to the other side and/or giving out yellow cards.

 

[GIMH]

'Umpires shouldn't make decisions because they get things wrong sometimes' is a wild take. The only thing the ball change fiasco proves is that Joel Wilson and Kumar Dharmasena are incompetent. Shocker.

It’s not what anyone said, though

 

[trundler]

It’s not what anyone said, though

I'm sure the same people who buggered up which ball is which age in this test never make a mistake with it.

Umpires might make mistake so don't have over rate penalties is a horrendous argument especially when we're basing the duties of all umpires on what the 2 most incompetent ones in the world did.

 

[loterry1994]

You can look forward to an India vs New Zealand WTC final again

 

[GIMH]

Umpires might make mistake so don't have over rate penalties is a horrendous argument especially when we're basing the duties of all umpires on what the 2 most incompetent ones in the world did.

It’s not what he’s saying though! He’s questioning the specific observations of these umpires!!

 

[centurymaker]

You can look forward to an India vs New Zealand WTC final again

no. South Africa have already made the final this cycle. They are playing six 2-match series (12 tests in total)

@ Home
2 x Pak
2 x SL
2 x Ind

@Away
2 x Ban
2 x WI
2 X NZ

They should win 4-5 at home and 4-5 away.

Worst case scenario is 8 wins out of 12 tests
= minimum 66.7%

(thats more than enough to make the final in top spot!) So Final would be SA v Aus or Ind

 

[Fuller Pilch]

You can look forward to an India vs New Zealand WTC final again

No.

Terrible draw for NZ

Bang, SL, and India away
SA, Aus, and Eng at home

 

[loterry1994]

no. South Africa have already made the final this cycle. They are playing six 2-match series (12 tests in total)

@ Home
2 x Pak
2 x SL
2 x Ind

@Away
2 x Ban
2 x WI
2 X NZ

They should win 4-5 at home and 4-5 away.

Worst case scenario is 8 wins out of 12 tests
= minimum 66.7%

(thats more than enough to make the final in top spot!) So Final would be SA v Aus or Ind

Man what a draw they really should try even this tournament out more amongst the teams. Playing only 2 tests series this cycle is rubbish also. Kind of sucks we won’t see an South Africa vs Aus series as well they’re like my favourite tours

really not a fan of 2 test series especially when it ends 1-1 and there isn’t another match to split the two teams