The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Coronis]

Mate, I penned the bats in as they occurred to me. I write these sides down in approx order [esp the MO slots] for the wider purpose of debate. Stop being a pedant.

Shockingly, cricket convention has always been listing an XI in batting order. Anyone reading your post would assume you intend to bat them as written.

 

[ataraxia]

Shockingly, cricket convention has always been listing an XI in batting order. Anyone reading your post would assume you intend to bat them as written.

Oh please shut up

 

[number11]

Oh please shut up

Some people cannot tell the forest from the trees.

 

[trundler]

Clearly the more pertinent dichotomy here is Atapattu Vs Karunaratne. Sanga and Jaya are the lockiest of locks in the SL all time XI. Atapattu was mostly a scorer of wanker runs, as much as a top order batsman can be anyway. He cashed in big, big time against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe when they were minnows. This is true of Karunaratne too but the only side that weak today is Ireland and he's played two tests against them. He has an equally middling record away but he's a lot more rocks and diamond so at least has quality centuries in India and SA. Karunaratne sticks out more in this era because the other openers to average 40+ long term (Warner and Latham) have less spectacular highs in tough circumstances though all 3 have been mostly crap when not bullying sides at home. Karunaratne had had tougher decks to bat on at home than Atapattu imo and has displayed a genuine mastery of turners. There's a reason he averages almost 50 at home. He's good there regardless of opposition quality which I don't think is true of Atapattu.

 

[BazBall21]

Clearly the more pertinent dichotomy here is Atapattu Vs Karunaratne. Sanga and Jaya are the lockiest of locks in the SL all time XI. Atapattu was mostly a scorer of wanker runs, as much as a top order batsman can be anyway. He cashed in big, big time against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe when they were minnows. This is true of Karunaratne too but the only side that today is Ireland and he's played two tests against them. He has an equally middling record away but he's a lot more rocks and diamond so at least has quality centuries in India and SA. Karunaratne sticks out more in this era because the other openers to average 40+ long term (Warner and Latham) have less spectacular highs in tough circumstances though all 3 have been mostly crap when not bullying sides at home. Karunaratne had had tougher decks to bat on at home than Atapattu imo and has displayed a genuine mastery of turners. There's a reason he averages almost 50 at home. He's good there regardless of opposition quality which I don't think is true of Atapattu. Also Atapattu averaged more down the order.

Yeah Sri Lankan pitches have been spicier during Karunaratne's career.

 

[Coronis]

Oh please shut up

How else am I supposed to amuse myself after work?

 

[ataraxia]

How else am I supposed to amuse myself after work?

Poke fun at trundler

 

[Coronis]

Poke fun at trundler

I’d rather spread the love.

 

[Prince EWS]

Clearly the more pertinent dichotomy here is Atapattu Vs Karunaratne. Sanga and Jaya are the lockiest of locks in the SL all time XI. Atapattu was mostly a scorer of wanker runs, as much as a top order batsman can be anyway. He cashed in big, big time against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe when they were minnows. This is true of Karunaratne too but the only side that weak today is Ireland and he's played two tests against them. He has an equally middling record away but he's a lot more rocks and diamond so at least has quality centuries in India and SA. Karunaratne sticks out more in this era because the other openers to average 40+ long term (Warner and Latham) have less spectacular highs in tough circumstances though all 3 have been mostly crap when not bullying sides at home. Karunaratne had had tougher decks to bat on at home than Atapattu imo and has displayed a genuine mastery of turners. There's a reason he averages almost 50 at home. He's good there regardless of opposition quality which I don't think is true of Atapattu.

Yeah I really enjoyed watching Atapattu bat - technical purity - but Karunaratne is definitely better IMO.

 

[kyear2]

Just watched over some of the Richie Benaud all time XI series

And sure it's been done before but interesting to look at "an updated" short list of every position.

Openers
Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Sunil Gavaskar
Herbert Sutcliffe
Bobby Simpson
Gordon Greenidge

No. 3
Donald Bradman
Wally Hammond
George Headley

Middle Order
Viv Richards
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Steve Smith
Graeme Pollock
Greg Chappell

All Rounder
Garry Sobers
Jacques Kallis
Keith Miller

Wicket keeper
Adam Gilchrist
Allan Knott
Kumar Sangakkara

Bowling All Rounder
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram

Fast Bowlers
Malcolm Marshall
Glenn McGrath
Dale Steyn
Curtly Ambrose
Allan Donald
Dennis Lillee

Spinner
Shane Warne
Muttiah Muralitharan
Bill O'Reilly

Which group is the strongest? Who got snubbed? Frank Worrell, Allan Davidson, Graeme Smith?

 

[Bolo.]

Just watched over some of the Richie Benaud all time XI series

And sure it's been done before but interesting to look at a short list of every position.

Openers
Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Sunil Gavaskar
Herbert Sutcliffe
Bobby Simpson
Gordon Greenidge

No. 3
Donald Bradman
Wally Hammond
George Headley

Middle Order
Viv Richards
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Steve Smith
Graeme Pollock
Greg Chappell

All Rounder
Garry Sobers
Jacques Kallis
Keith Miller

Wicket keeper
Adam Gilchrist
Allan Knott
Kumar Sangakkara

Bowling All Rounder
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram

Fast Bowlers
Malcolm Marshall
Glenn McGrath
Dale Steyn
Curtly Ambrose
Allan Donald
Dennis Lillee

Spinner
Shane Warne
Muttiah Muralitharan
Bill O'Reilly

Which group is the strongest? Who got snubbed? Frank Worrell, Allan Davidson, Graeme Smith?

Nobody really got snubbed, although there are a few players who would be just as at home on that list as some of the bottom picks. Barnes is probably the most notable exclusion.

 

[trundler]

I'd rather take out Simpson than include Smith because I don't think Simpson is necessarily better than Smith who isn't better than Sehwag/Hayden/Lawry/Boycott. The big 4 openers are distinctly better for me.

 

[The Sean]

Just watched over some of the Richie Benaud all time XI series

And sure it's been done before but interesting to look at a short list of every position.

Openers
Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Sunil Gavaskar
Herbert Sutcliffe
Bobby Simpson
Gordon Greenidge

No. 3
Donald Bradman
Wally Hammond
George Headley

Middle Order
Viv Richards
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Steve Smith
Graeme Pollock
Greg Chappell

All Rounder
Garry Sobers
Jacques Kallis
Keith Miller

Wicket keeper
Adam Gilchrist
Allan Knott
Kumar Sangakkara

Bowling All Rounder
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram

Fast Bowlers
Malcolm Marshall
Glenn McGrath
Dale Steyn
Curtly Ambrose
Allan Donald
Dennis Lillee

Spinner
Shane Warne
Muttiah Muralitharan
Bill O'Reilly

Which group is the strongest? Who got snubbed? Frank Worrell, Allan Davidson, Graeme Smith?

Hi mate, where did you see this? Because that's a significantly updated shortlist from the one he originally produced.

 

[ataraxia]

Hi mate, where did you see this? Because that's a significantly updated shortlist from the one he originally produced.

It materialised to him; he saw it in the annals of the brain

 

[Adorable Asshole]

I'd rather take out Simpson than include Smith because I don't think Simpson is necessarily better than Smith who isn't better than Sehwag/Hayden/Lawry/Boycott. The big 4 openers are distinctly better for me.

Your thinking is wrong.

 

[Bolo.]

I'd rather take out Simpson than include Smith because I don't think Simpson is necessarily better than Smith who isn't better than Sehwag/Hayden/Lawry/Boycott. The big 4 openers are distinctly better for me.

Simpson and Greenidge are both a bit out of place there, and there aren't openers who should clearly replace them.

Border/Trueman/S pollock (and a few others) are all probably better calls in other categories if going for this exact number of players.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Simpson and Greenidge are both a bit out of place there, and there aren't openers who should clearly replace them.

Drop Simpson and Greenidge, add Grace.

 

[The Sean]

The shortlist was based on Benaud's approach to choose three teams (effectively three players for each position) and then narrow down from there.

As I've said though, his original shortlist was quite substantially different from this one.

 

[Bolo.]

Drop Simpson and Greenidge, add Grace.

Seems to be test only. And originally only 20th century, although Kyear is adding 21st. But if it's more inclusive, Grace is only comparable to Bradman.

 

[Coronis]

Hi mate, where did you see this? Because that's a significantly updated shortlist from the one he originally produced.

Pretty sure its just kyear’s own shortlist. Doubt Benaud (or anyone) was picking Smith that high in 2015.