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*Official* Fourth Test (Old Trafford, Manchester) 19-23 July

Zinzan

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Commiserations England. Gutted from a neutral POV with the mouth-watering prospect of a 2-2 scoreline going into The Oval now off the cards.

Definitely should feel hard done by as England have been the better of the two sides in the series to date for mine in spite of the 1-2 scoreline.
 

flibbertyjibber

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Got to say I am not that overly fussed as I would have been in previous years. Well done Australia, taken advantage of our errors and won the big moments. Our defeat means Stokes and Bairstow will always carry the can for a series loss that was our own making and could/should have been so different.
 

chris.hinton

International Captain
Yeah I've always been confused why people talk about the deflected boundary, that's always been an accepted part of the game. But the boundary countback rule was extremely stupid and it was only the presumption that it would be never be needed that allowed it to persist.
Agreed. NZ should have won the game on fewer wickets
 

chris.hinton

International Captain
And a lot of English media are trying to put this on par with 2005…. Idiots the lot of them. That was a better England side beating one of the greatest sporting teams of all time

2023 is on par with 2019 & 2009
 

the big bambino

International Captain
From 1 Jan 200
Worse average than Broad, Anderson, Cummins, Robinson, Wood, and Boland. Better average than Starc, but Starc has left-arm variety, more pace and is a decent 8/9 while Hazlewood is a poor 11.
Yes but out of that lot he only bears comparison to Cummins starc and boland for selection and he’s up on starc and more credentialed than boland.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
England lost the Ashes, not through Bazzball, but by failing in the fundamentals.

Taking wickets off no balls, dropping more catches than their opponents (Bairstow's runs negated by his sloppy glovework), and some poor batting at Lords.

Do the fundamentals better, you win more than you lose.
Yeah, that's my take on it. When I talked about throwing away the 2nd test, I was primarily referring to that run of dismissals when we were 180 for 1 and Lyon was out of action. iirc we saw four guys giving catching practice as their considered response to Australia's short-ball tactic, meaning that what should have been a significant first innings lead was instead, a significant first innings deficit. For all the fun and games in England's second innings, that game was actually decided in the first innings. Especially when you throw in the vital drops at the start of Day 1.

None of which makes England 'the better side', as some have suggested. Being the better side includes not making the string of errors that we saw from England at Edgbaston and Lord's. And I don't get the 'bang average' thing either. There are reasons why we all thought this was a pretty strong Aus side before the series, and, if anything, the closeness of the matches is testament to England slightly punching above their weight.
 

Woodster

International Captain
And a lot of English media are trying to put this on par with 2005…. Idiots the lot of them. That was a better England side beating one of the greatest sporting teams of all time

2023 is on par with 2019 & 2009
Are the comparisons drawn not based on the amount of interest and anticipation the series has produced around the country? Also the tense and competitive nature of each completed Test? Think it’s been much more captivating and exciting than the 2009 and 2019 series and closer to 2005 than either.

Both sides were stronger in 2005, not sure that’s in question!
 

TheJediBrah

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has this been posted already

View attachment 36627
He's being way too generous. Didn't even mention that the umpire got the rule wrong, they didn't actually win anyway and were awarded the tournament after the tie due to boundary countback. Also they lost 3 group games and while my memory is not 100% on this but they may have only got through to the finals because of rain ruined games
 

chris.hinton

International Captain
He's being way too generous. Didn't even mention that the umpire got the rule wrong, they didn't actually win anyway and were awarded the tournament after the tie due to boundary countback. Also they lost 3 group games and while my memory is not 100% on this but they may have only got through to the finals because of rain ruined games
Pakistan were rained off vs Sri Lanka (Who we lost too)
 

Molehill

International Captain
Got to say I am not that overly fussed as I would have been in previous years. Well done Australia, taken advantage of our errors and won the big moments. Our defeat means Stokes and Bairstow will always carry the can for a series loss that was our own making and could/should have been so different.
That's where I am on it. It's frustrating because without that stupid declaration and some woeful keeping, England would've won the series comfortably. It's not like previous Ashes defeats where we've been totally outplayed and you're wondering just how bleak the next 10 years might be. If anything, I now have more hope for the next series (probably foolishly) as the team with the Ashes probably has more questions to answer going forward.
 

Gob

International Coach
He's being way too generous. Didn't even mention that the umpire got the rule wrong, they didn't actually win anyway and were awarded the tournament after the tie due to boundary countback. Also they lost 3 group games and while my memory is not 100% on this but they may have only got through to the finals because of rain ruined games
Yeah I remember its being pointed out that Dharmasena ****ed it but don't remember how

Did he give an extra run or mistakenly put Stokes on strike?
 

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