Ravichandran Ashwin vs Pat Cummins

[OverratedSanity]

Cummins is an easy ATG as a bowler alone imo.

An interesting comparison among off-spinners is Ashwin vs Laker. Laker is considered an ATG and probably the name that comes up most often after Murali/Warne/O'Reilly, and there can be some similar crticisms that can be made of Laker's record that are usually made for Ashwin. He too benefitted from some extremely helpful dustbowls at home and his away record is ok, but nothing spectacular especially when you consider he didn't bowl in anywhere near the variety of conditions modern bowlers do.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

How is Cummins ATG while Ashwin and Jadeja are not?

30+ average in 2 countries compared to 3 for Ashwin and Jadeja.

Ashwin averages 42.1 in Australia while Cummins average 32.8 in India.

It's pretty clear Cummins is a better bowler. If you want to include Ashwin batting Cummins also led his team WTC.

Yeah you can make an argument for Ashwin simply based on a fuller career but I value peak more than longevity.

I still don't think he is a even better than Kumble.

 

[Majestic]

30+ average in 2 countries compared to 3 for Ashwin and Jadeja.

Ashwin averages 42.1 in Australia while Cummins average 32.8 in India.

It's pretty clear Cummins is a better bowler. If you want to include Ashwin batting Cummins also led his team WTC.

Yeah you can make an argument for Ashwin simply based on a fuller career but I value peak more than longevity.

I still don't think he is a even better than Kumble.

Averages won't remain same the more these guys tour.

Jadeja averages 25 in South Africa in 1 test. I doubt it will be 25 by the end of SA tour later this year unless ofcourse he doesn't play. Same way, he averages 21 in Aus with bowl over 4 tests. He will most likely have one more tour to Aus so let's see where he ends.

Same way for Cummins, those averages can go bad or better so instead looking at impact would be better than averages.

Ashwin due to his sheer impact of winning matches at home, SL and WI in last 10 years will be an ATG cricketer, if not an ATG bowler.

 

[CricAddict]

30+ average in 2 countries compared to 3 for Ashwin and Jadeja.

Ashwin averages 42.1 in Australia while Cummins average 32.8 in India.

It's pretty clear Cummins is a better bowler. If you want to include Ashwin batting Cummins also led his team WTC.

Yeah you can make an argument for Ashwin simply based on a fuller career but I value peak more than longevity.

I still don't think he is a even better than Kumble.

I am not disputing that Cummins is a better bowler than Ashwin currently and have even said that in an earlier post. But it is hilarious that you think Cummins is atg while Ashwin is not because he performed worse in one less country.

 

[honestbharani]

I am not disputing that Cummins is a better bowler than Ashwin currently and have even said that in an earlier post. But it is hilarious that you think Cummins is atg while Ashwin is not because he performed worse in one less country.

That is not even fully true though. Ashwin has had more impact as a bowler in Aus than Cummins has in India.

 

[h_hurricane]

If Ashwin never toured Australia or SA, he would have been rated as the best spinner ever.

 

[subshakerz]

Cummins is an easy ATG as a bowler alone imo.

An interesting comparison among off-spinners is Ashwin vs Laker. Laker is considered an ATG and probably the name that comes up most often after Murali/Warne/O'Reilly, and there can be some similar crticisms that can be made of Laker's record that are usually made for Ashwin. He too benefitted from some extremely helpful dustbowls at home and his away record is ok, but nothing spectacular especially when you consider he didn't bowl in anywhere near the variety of conditions modern bowlers do.

Cummins isn't an ATG yet. Let him take 300 plus wickets first.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

My list of ATGs

Australia

Bradman
Miller
O'Reilly
Davidson
Chappell
Border
Warne
Waugh
Ponting
Mcgrath
Gilchrist
Smith
Cummins

England

Barnes
Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Hutton
Root
Maybe Boycott and Laker

India

Sachin
Gavaskar
Dravid
Maybe Kapil

Pakistan

Imran
Miandad
Wasim

Sri Lanka

Sangakkara
Murali

West Indies

Headley
Sobers
Viv
Garner
Marshall
Ambrose
Lara

New Zealand

Hadlee

South Africa

Donald
Kallis
Pollock
Steyn
Smith

I am not disputing that Cummins is a better bowler than Ashwin currently and have even said that in an earlier post. But it is hilarious that you think Cummins is atg while Ashwin is not because he performed worse in one less country.

Do you consider Kumble an ATG?

 

[subshakerz]

My list of ATGs

Australia

Bradman
Miller
O'Reilly
Davidson
Chappell
Border
Warne
Waugh
Mcgrath
Smith
Cummins

England

Barnes
Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Hutton
Root
Maybe Boycott and Laker

India

Sachin
Gavaskar
Dravid
Maybe Kapil

Pakistan

Imran
Miandad
Wasim

Sri Lanka

Sangakkara
Murali

West Indies

Hadlee
Sobers
Viv
Garner
Marshall
Ambrose
Lara

New Zealand

Hadlee

South Africa

Donald
Kallis
Steyn
Smith


Do you consider Kumble an ATG?

Your a bit more open than me. Root, Davidson, Boycott, Dravid, Miandad and G. Smith all regular greats for me.

 

[CricAddict]

My list of ATGs

Australia

Bradman
Miller
O'Reilly
Davidson
Chappell
Border
Warne
Waugh
Mcgrath
Smith
Cummins

England

Barnes
Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Hutton
Root
Maybe Boycott and Laker

India

Sachin
Gavaskar
Dravid
Maybe Kapil

Pakistan

Imran
Miandad
Wasim

Sri Lanka

Sangakkara
Murali

West Indies

Hadlee
Sobers
Viv
Garner
Marshall
Ambrose
Lara

New Zealand

Hadlee

South Africa

Donald
Kallis
Steyn
Smith


Do you consider Kumble an ATG?

Like subz has just mentioned in above post, the definition of atg varies from person to person. I am not a big fan of Kumble but yes, he is atg for me.

 

[CricAddict]

Your a bit more open than me. Root, Davidson, Boycott, Dravid, Miandad and G. Smith all regular greats for me.

How about Border? I don't think he is that much of a better batsman than Dravid.

Also, you think Root is much better than all the above?

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Your a bit more open than me. Root, Davidson, Boycott, Dravid, Miandad and G. Smith all regular greats for me.

Says the guy who considers Botham ATG. Lol

 

[Coronis]

My list of ATGs

Australia

Bradman
Miller
O'Reilly
Davidson
Chappell
Border
Warne
Waugh
Ponting
Mcgrath
Gilchrist
Smith
Cummins

England

Barnes
Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Hutton
Root
Maybe Boycott and Laker

India

Sachin
Gavaskar
Dravid
Maybe Kapil

Pakistan

Imran
Miandad
Wasim

Sri Lanka

Sangakkara
Murali

West Indies

Hadlee
Sobers
Viv
Garner
Marshall
Ambrose
Lara

New Zealand

Hadlee

South Africa

Donald
Kallis
Pollock
Steyn
Smith


Do you consider Kumble an ATG?

Hadlee - the only man great enough to be ATG for 2 countries.

Also you don’t consider Hammond an ATG?

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Hadlee - the only man great enough to be ATG for 2 countries.

Also you don’t consider Hammond an ATG?

Oh I meant Headley

And no. I have made it pretty clear

Most overrated cricketer

Wally Hammond imo. He batted in the most batting friendly era and still was miles below the best bat of his time. Would not be a top 5 bat in this era. Who is the most overrated in your opinion?

www.cricketweb.net

 

[Coronis]

Oh I meant Headley

And no. I have made it pretty clear

Most overrated cricketer

Wally Hammond imo. He batted in the most batting friendly era and still was miles below the best bat of his time. Would not be a top 5 bat in this era. Who is the most overrated in your opinion?

www.cricketweb.net

Headley also batted in one of the most batting friendly eras and was miles below the best bat of his time js js.

 

[Xix2565]

The only black mark can be to not win a series in South Africa in either 2018 or 2022.

In England, they drew( where Jadeja did a fine job) and Ashwin/Jadeja both contributed in winning two series in Australia as well.

Come on, Cummins can't say losing twice at home is great for his rep. Isn't he supposed to go down as an ATG? Was with more support and in home conditions. Shameless from you.

 

[subshakerz]

How about Border? I don't think he is that much of a better batsman than Dravid.

Also, you think Root is much better than all the above?

Border is better than Dravid and just makes it as an ATG whereas Steve Waugh is more debatable.

Root will wait to see where he ends up. For much of his career he wasn't rated quite as high.

 

[subshakerz]

Says the guy who considers Botham ATG. Lol

Why is Botham controversial? His first half, yes with WSC players missing, was still an unbelievable peak and makes his overall output more impressive. But he would just make it as an ATG while being below IK, Sobers, Kallis, Miller and Hadlee...

 

[Majestic]

Come on, Cummins can't say losing twice at home is great for his rep. Isn't he supposed to go down as an ATG? Was with more support and in home conditions. Shameless from you.

Cummins was P.O.S in 2020-21 home series vs India. Not his fault his team lost, he alone fought hard.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Headley also batted in one of the most batting friendly eras and was miles below the best bat of his time js js.

I only reluctantly included Headley in this.But comparing him to Hammond, Headley played in a much weaker team for which I think he should be given extra points. Plus Hammond had a problem against good pace while Headley never had such problems.