If you were to pick a single pitch to be most stereotypically Indian, it would probably be Durban. And I'm including pitches that are actually in India in this statement.
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Is Ashwin an ATG spinner / player?
- Thread starter ma1978
- Start date
Are you really running through a side when you take 43+ overs to get to a 5fer? 5 in 43 is basically Ashwin's career SR.
It's a demonstration of bowling a lot of overs more than anything else.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Except Kumble, and other SC spinners, have done both. Long spell and short spell fifers.
Ashwin hasn't. Even the few times in SENA when he has bowled over 40 overs.
There is no running away from this fact that he hasn't demonstrated wicket taking ability. Just accept this weakness in his record and move on.
Socerer 01
International Captain
so if Ashwin has good figures on a pitch its because the overseas pitch by some miracle supported him and if he doesn’t then he is crap to not have worked miracles on them
ok
Shri
Mr. Glass
again. did kumble win a series away from home? ashwin won two in australia. once with the ball and once arguably with the bat
Shri
Mr. Glass
proof?
Other than Murali, the number of times a SC spinner has run through a team in SENA is basically 0 or 1 each. Maybe you can find 2 or 3, but it doesn't really matter. It's lol sample size No matter what.
You don't expect a bowler bowling 40+ to get a 5fer in unfavorable conditions against quality opposition. Do it enough times and you start to expect it, but he has done it very few times.
Don't move goalposts. I'm discussing your 5fer thing and comparing with Kumble. I have never claimed his numbers in SENA were any good. They are very poor, and probably?? worse than Kumble's. I think his bowling has been a lot better than his numbers suggest though. His bowling in SENA has at times been excellent, although without many wickets to show for it. I forget which test it was in England in 2018ish (Edgbaston??), but I think that was the most impressed I have ever been watching a spinner in SENA. Sometimes great bowling doesn't translate into huge hauls.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Come off it. Ashwin's 12 wickets @ 28 in 2021 didn't 'win' the series for India. It helped but wasn't absolutely critical. And the bat is irrelevant.
It's not like Harbi in 2001 or Johnson in Ashes 2013.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
I am not arguing Ashwin is rubbish in SENA. He has been poor in SA, decent in England and good recently in Australia. I also think he was robbed of a good opportunity to get a standout performance in England in 2021 when he was not selected.
Just arguing his record as it stands shows a conspicuous lack of standout away performances in SENA that you would need to qualify as an ATG. I think we agree. The fifer thing is just a signpost of wicket taking ability. Even a long spell one would be at least something to hold your hat on.
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OverratedSanity
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Absolute rubbish lmao. You just have poor cricket knowledge unfortunately. Please watch more cricket.
Well yeah no **** it wasn't as good as literally the two greatest series performances in cricket history . No one claimed that. Almost every argument of yours on CW is based on strawmanning. I wonder if it gets tiring to you.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Lol when someone claims a single player, not a team, 'wins' you an entire series you are talking about a superlative ATG performance.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Check the record. Plenty of SC spinners have run through sides on their day in SENA. Just not Ashwin.
Shri
Mr. Glass
count teams that have won tests/test series in aus. pick finger spinners from it. find me someone who has done better
Shri
Mr. Glass
nope. you are talking out of your ass because you don't have proof.
OverratedSanity
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Let me remind you how this started again, since your memory is shocking. You claimed Ashwin didn't have as much impact as kumble. Ashwin has contributed a lot to two series wins. That is why we keep pointing out that his cheap hauls which had wickets coming in bunches induced australia batting collapses and played a huge part in us winning . It doesn't matter if it wasn't literally the GOAT series performance. Kumbles hauls were expensive and slow and didn't impact the match outcome. Spinners haven't contributed to actual wins in Australia as much as Ashwin did in a long time.
Best series performance by a spinner in Australia in decades. You just can't handle it. Sad.
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
Seems like subshakerz tried subscribing to Ashwin's youtube channel and the request was rejected for some reason. Hence the backlash.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
In SENA:
Herath 5fer against SA, 5fer against Australia
Kumble 8fer and 5fer against Australia, 6fer against SA
Saqlain 6fers against Australia and SA
Mushtaq Ahmed 7fer against NZ, 5fers against Australia, 6fers against SA and Eng
Ajmal 10 fer against SA, 5fer against England
Harbi 6fer against NZ, 7fer against SA
Murali 10fers against NZ, Eng and SA
Ashwin nil.
Get the point?
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
I already restated the same thing myself. At least try to reach some point of agreement rather than mindless sniping.
Kumble was better in 2003/4 sorry.
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
Pretty much nailed it. Their 5 fors were useless.