Why are England so much better at producing all rounders than Australia?

[GIMH]

1. McMillan, S Pollock, Kallis, Klusener as well as Procter and Rice. (Greig* would've played for them too if not for apartheid). Late career Barlow was not considered.

2. Hadlee, Cairns, Oram, Vettori, De Grandhomme (late career Taylor was not considered).

3= Greig*, Botham, Flintoff, Stokes,

3= Kapil, Ashwin, Jadeja, Axar

Klusener was the worst of those listed above but still better than the likes of Prabhakar, Shastri, Craig, Santner, Woakes, Ali etc

Botham > Hadlee > Stokes > Flintoff = Cairns > Woakes > Oram etc

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Botham > Hadlee > Stokes > Flintoff = Cairns > Woakes > Oram etc

????
Apologies to @Red_Ink_Squid but
Vettori, Oram, and De Grandhomme are all well above Chris Woakes.

Oram scored 130 odd vs Steyn, Pollock, Ntini, and Kallis in SA, 126* vs McGrath, Gillespie, Kaspa, and Warne at the Gabba, and has more test 100s at Lord's than Sachin Tendulkar.

Vettori is one of only 3 players in history with 4,000 runs and 300 wickets (along with Kapil and Botham), and CDG averaged 38.7 with the bat and 32.95 with the ball.

Also Hadlee vs WI (probably the best team ever) averaged 32.5 with the bat and 22 with the ball. Botham averaged 21.5 and 35.

 

[GIMH]

I stuck Woakes in for a laugh, stand by the rest.

 

[Vincent]

Even a hard nosed Englishman like me would have to concede that Oz have been half decent at cricket over the years. In my time following the game they’ve had the best seamer (McGrath), spinner (Warne) and two of the best batsmen (Ponting and Smith).

Alas everyone knows all-rounders are the true superstars in Test Cricket. England were once mocked for trying to constantly find the next Botham but in the time that we’ve reeled out Flintoff, Stokes, Ali, Woakes, the best they can give us is Shane Watson, who averages about 46 with the ball.

Why are they so ****?

What have they really achieved with flintoff, stokes, ali and woakes?

 

[GIMH]

What have they really achieved with flintoff, stokes, ali and woakes?

With Flintoff we won The ashes for the first time in a generation

The other three, just a couple of world cups

 

[Vincent]

With Flintoff we won The ashes for the first time in a generation

The other three, just a couple of world cups

Well, it wasn't due to flintoff that pommies won ashes. Though, he definitely captained the side that got whitewashed.

Also, they again won 2019 wc due to umpiring howler and stokes almost lost them the 2022 final like 2016, but got lucky due to afridi getting injured. And, just winning wc doesn't mean anything, you gotta dominate in bilaterals as well.

 

[Qlder]

With Flintoff [and Murray Mints] we won The ashes for the first time in a generation

Slight correction

 

[Fuller Pilch]

With Flintoff we won The ashes for the first time in a generation

The other three, just a couple of world cups

James Faulkner and Mitchell Marsh won the Aussies a couple of World Cups as well. And they wouldn't have won in 2003 without Andrew Symonds saving them against Pakistan.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Also I'm no honestbharani, but Shane Watson (although inferior to Oram and De Grandhomme) was a better allrounder than Ali and Woakes.

 

[Vincent]

Also I'm no honestbharani, but Shane Watson (although inferior to Oram and De Grandhomme) was a better allrounder than Ali and Woakes.

Marsh> stokes

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Marsh> stokes

Better in the Ashes

 

[Prince EWS]

I stuck Woakes in for a laugh, stand by the rest.

This is just a supplementary desperate troll, because noone really thinks Moeen is better than Watson.

 

[Uppercut]

????
Apologies to @Red_Ink_Squid but
Vettori, Oram, and De Grandhomme are all well above Chris Woakes.

Oram scored 130 odd vs Steyn, Pollock, Ntini, and Kallis in SA, 126* vs McGrath, Gillespie, Kaspa, and Warne at the Gabba, and has more test 100s at Lord's than Sachin Tendulkar.

Vettori is one of only 3 players in history with 4,000 runs and 300 wickets (along with Kapil and Botham), and CDG averaged 38.7 with the bat and 32.95 with the ball.

Also Hadlee vs WI (probably the best team ever) averaged 32.5 with the bat and 22 with the ball. Botham averaged 21.5 and 35.

Vettori>Woakes>Oram. Which is kind of the opposite of what their career averages suggests. But it is definitely true. If they're playing a test match in the schoolyard Vettori is getting picked first and Oram is getting picked last every time.

 

[Vincent]

Better in the Ashes

Already a better t20 player, and has won man of the series in odi touring the toughest place in the world. He's just going to get better from here on.

 

[andruid]

Because they do mediocrity better than excellence

 

[sledger]

Well, it wasn't due to flintoff that pommies won ashes. Though, he definitely captained the side that got whitewashed.

Also, they again won 2019 wc due to umpiring howler and stokes almost lost them the 2022 final like 2016, but got lucky due to afridi getting injured. And, just winning wc doesn't mean anything, you gotta dominate in bilaterals as well.

Yeah so basically if you discount all of the times England actually succeeded, they didn't succeed at all. It's all the teams that actually didn't achieve anything that are the real achievers.

 

[GIMH]

This is just a supplementary desperate troll, because noone really thinks Moeen is better than Watson.

No you idiot, I mean in my reply to fuller not the OP

 

[GIMH]

James Faulkner and Mitchell Marsh won the Aussies a couple of World Cups as well. And they wouldn't have won in 2003 without Andrew Symonds saving them against Pakistan.

Ok?

 

[GIMH]

Better in the Ashes

lol

 

[Aidan11]

Marsh> stokes

Chortle.