Why are England so much better at producing all rounders than Australia?

[Prince EWS]

Reminds me of this discussion

Australia, time to end the all rounder thing?

Since 2005 Australia has wanted an allrounder in its test team for the most part. For the most part it's been Watson, and a bit of Symonds, and a little bit of Marsh. Australia don't need an allrounder. We have an enviable fast bowling cartel, and we can rely on a combination of any 3 of...

www.cricketweb.net

Haha I'd forgotten about that post. I really enjoyed reading it back, especially since links to my old posts are usually done to take the piss out of me.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

James Faulkner was a wasted talent for Australia, could have been a handy test all rounder

 

[Prince EWS]

James Faulkner was a wasted talent for Australia, could have been a handy test all rounder

Forkers Faulkner was good for only one thing: dayboo memes.

 

[GIMH]

also watto is better than moeen and woakes and not thaaaaaat much behind freddy

england's got a deeper modern all rounder bench for sure but don't underestimate watto. roy great as well right

Hehe, a bit disappointed that it took this long to get a reaction to throwing those two names in there, and that when it came it was so polite.

As an all-rounder Watson wasn’t close to Freddie though. It’s something I’ve seen people say over the years and I can only assume it’s a stat based theory. He was a better top order batsman ofc, but not in the same stratosphere as an all-rounder.

 

[Prince EWS]

Hehe, a bit disappointed that it took this long to get a reaction to throwing those two names in there, and that when it came it was so polite.

As an all-rounder Watson wasn’t close to Freddie though. It’s something I’ve seen people say over the years and I can only assume it’s a stat based theory. He was a better top order batsman ofc, but not in the same stratosphere as an all-rounder.

Yeah I've always been a huge Watson fan and I think he probably actually had more raw talent than Flintoff, but he wasn't a better batsman by enough to compensate for how little his bowling workload was in an allrounder comparison. He was really good at his bowling role but it just didn't have anywhere near the impact on a Test that Flintoff's ability to bowl into the ground did, and whenever he pushed himself to do something like that he broke down.

Even as a stat-based theory, Watson>Flintoff could really only be based on raw averages rather than any serious statistical analysis.

 

[Spark]

Haha I'd forgotten about that post. I really enjoyed reading it back, especially since links to my old posts are usually done to take the piss out of me.

It's especially good because it's made in reply to the king of performative macho nonsense masquerading as analysis: Blocky.

 

[Howe_zat]

Haha I'd forgotten about that post. I really enjoyed reading it back, especially since links to my old posts are usually done to take the piss out of me.

Oh yeah. We should do that too since there's a lot of new members in this sub.

The "big picture" on cricinfo for the Eng v Zim one day game was this:

I cant get my head around it!

Where is Taibus head?

Also, it appears that half of his body is facing towards the batsman (see gloves) and the other half is facing the third man boundary (see feet). Also, one of his feet appears to be IN FRONT of the stumps as hes diving!

Whats going on???

 

[Spark]

Now that I think about it that is a really weird looking photo.

 

[Prince EWS]

Oh yeah. We should do that too since there's a lot of new members in this sub.

Daily reminder that Taibu's Head > Wade.

 

[Spark]

Good god I forgot just how ****ing miserable Blocky was to argue with. Actually arguing that Australia should have dropped Mitchell Johnson at his peak rather than playing an all rounder to allow him to bowl short spells.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Wait how did you not see taibus head?

 

[Prince EWS]

Wait how did you not see taibus head?

I was too distracted by his terrible wade.

 

[Howe_zat]

I was too distracted by his terrible wade.

quit trying to colonise perfectly good memes with your own meme

 

[trundler]

Even as a stat-based theory, Watson>Flintoff could really only be based on raw averages rather than any serious statistical analysis.

Works for Kallis tho

 

[Qlder]

Australia are too busy producing 50+ averaging batsmen so no time to waste on bowling practice

 

[Prince EWS]

quit trying to colonise perfectly good memes with your own meme

Winners never quit.

 

[Dendarii]

4 – Greig.

Although if we're talking about producing allrounders, then does Greig count for England?

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

@Red_Ink_Squid may provide an argument for a fifth...

Aye. Flintoff's peak was short but it was a seriously high peak. One of the absolute best players in the world for a few years.

1. Woakes
2. Botham
3. Stokes
4. Grieg
5. Flintoff

 

[Owzat]

Frankly, they're not.

Far too few genuinely good Test allrounders to indicate anything more than random chance.

pretty much anyone who can bat and can bowl is classed as an "all-rounder", but those who could make the side on one skill alone is much smaller.

I doubt Woakes and Ali could, they can bat and can bowl respectively, but holding down a place on their weakest skill would be hard.

as has been said aussies have good enough bowlers they don't need to rely heavily on all-rounders, most Test sides would include one of quality enough but you actually want batsmen to score runs and bowlers to take wickets, not stick in a few bits n pieces cricketers who might take 2-3 wickets or might score a fifty

pick your best 4-5 batsmen, pick your best 2-3 bowlers, if any happen to have bowling and batting respectively in their locker then that's great but maybe the likes of Curran and Ali were meant to play LOIs more than Tests. Not to say in England Woakes at #8 isn't capable of playing his part as one of four quicks

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Good god I forgot just how ****ing miserable Blocky was to argue with. Actually arguing that Australia should have dropped Mitchell Johnson at his peak rather than playing an all rounder to allow him to bowl short spells.

Typical Durham guy.