The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Silver Line]

So using that Aus would probably be

1. Bob Simpson
2. Bill Ponsford
3. Donald Bradman
4. Greg Chappell
5. Allan Border (c)
6. Keith Miller
7. Rod Marsh (wk)
8. Richie Benaud
9. Alan Davidson
10. Ray Lindwall
11. Dennis Lillee

Post:

1. Usman Khawaja
2. Mathew Hayden
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Steve Smith
5. Michael Clarke
6. Steve Waugh (c)
7. Adam Gilchrist (wk)
8. Mitchell Johnson
9. Pat Cummins
10. Shane Warne
11. Glenn McGrath

 

[Coronis]

90s was a revolutionary era historically really, with the entertainment industry hitting a boom. Pop music, gaming consoles, airlines, those family shows etc becoming more accessible to the common man due to modernisation.

All of which are extremely relevant in this discussion.

 

[number11]

I tend to consider cricket’s modern era from 90s.

90s was a revolutionary era historically really, with the entertainment industry hitting a boom. Pop music, gaming consoles, airlines, those family shows etc becoming more accessible to the common man due to modernisation.

i reckon we should use the 90s for making post and pre’s imo. Just my 2 cents

Many ways to divide it. I consider covered wickets the definitive divide between modern/old eras but folk are obviously entitled to their own perspective.

 

[number11]

To go off on a tangent for a moment, what do you guys regard as the greatest possible WI ODI XI?

Minimum 20 ODIs reqd for eligibility. Else obviously Sobers with 1 cap makes it.

Consider:

Haynes
Gayle
Viv
Lara
C. Lloyd *
Dujon +
Marshall
Holding
Ambrose
Garner
Roberts

If we play Sobers, Roberts is benched. GS bats at 5.

 

[ataraxia]

Simpson*
Lawry
Bradman
Smith
Ponting
Border
Gilchrist +
Davidson
Lindwall
Warne
McGrath

Always feels wrong to exclude Miller. Only recently due to muh longevity have I downgraded O'Reilly below Warne – he wasn't too bad was he, that Warne bloke.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

To go off on a tangent for a moment, what do you guys regard as the greatest possible WI ODI XI?

Minimum 20 ODIs reqd for eligibility. Else obviously Sobers with 1 cap makes it.

Consider:

Haynes
Gayle
Viv
Lara
C. Lloyd *
Dujon +
Marshall
Holding
Ambrose
Garner
Roberts

If we play Sobers, Roberts is benched. GS bats at 5.

Hope (wk)
Greenidge
Viv
Lara
Sarwan
Lloyd
Hooper/Dwayne Bravo
Holding
Garner
Ambrose
Walsh/Narine

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Hope (wk)
Greenidge
Viv
Lara
Sarwan
Lloyd
Hooper/Dwayne Bravo
Holding
Garner
Ambrose
Walsh/Narine

Or pick Gayle for Sarwan and move Viv abd Lara down one/bat Hope at 5

 

[Shady Slim]

I tend to consider cricket’s modern era from 90s.

90s was a revolutionary era historically really, with the entertainment industry hitting a boom. Pop music, gaming consoles, airlines, those family shows etc becoming more accessible to the common man due to modernisation.

i reckon we should use the 90s for making post and pre’s imo. Just my 2 cents

feels a bit odd for mark taylor and wg grace to be from the same era. reckon you don't need a "modern" and "pre modern" to be the categories you restrict yourself to here

something along the lines of prewar, interwar, post-wwii through to seventies, 80s-90s, flatty era and post-flatty era as an example

 

[Silver Line]

To go off on a tangent for a moment, what do you guys regard as the greatest possible WI ODI XI?

Minimum 20 ODIs reqd for eligibility. Else obviously Sobers with 1 cap makes it.

Consider:

Haynes
Gayle
Viv
Lara
C. Lloyd *
Dujon +
Marshall
Holding
Ambrose
Garner
Roberts

If we play Sobers, Roberts is benched. GS bats at 5.

From my excel, i had this

Chris Gayle

Shai Hope (wk)

Brian Lara

Vivian Richards

Nicholas Pooran

Clive Lloyd (c)

Carl Hooper

Malcolm Marshall

Michael Holding

Curtly Ambrose

Joel Garner

 

[Silver Line]

Pre 90s Post 90s SA

Barry Richards
Bruce Mitchell
Dudley Nourse
Graeme Pollock
Aubrey Faulkner
Clive Rice
Mike Procter
John Waite
Hugh Tayfield
Vincent Van der Bijl
Garth Le Roux

Graeme Smith (c)
Gary Kirsten
Hashim Amla
Jacques Kallis
AB De Villiers
Quinton De Kock (wk)
Shaun Pollock
Dale Steyn
Kagiso Rabada
Keshav Maharaj
Allan Donald

 

[Adorable Asshole]

In any case this would still be the greatest side ever (with the possible exception of AT WI [same caveat applied]).

Not with these **** openers.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

AT Aus from the modern era only (post covered wickets ~ 1970).

Hayden
Warner
Ponting
Smith
G. Chappell
Border *
Gilchrist +
Warne
Lillee
Thomson
McGrath

In absolute terms (ie truly AT) obviously Bradman et al would get in (Miller, Morris etc). I continue to believe that no fair comparison can be made across the pre cw/post cw era.

The only two I'd disagree about are Warner and Thommo. S Waugh is very unlucky.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

So using that Aus would probably be

1. Bob Simpson
2. Bill Ponsford
3. Donald Bradman
4. Greg Chappell
5. Allan Border (c)
6. Keith Miller
7. Rod Marsh (wk)
8. Richie Benaud
9. Alan Davidson
10. Ray Lindwall
11. Dennis Lillee

Post:

1. Usman Khawaja
2. Mathew Hayden
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Steve Smith
5. Michael Clarke
6. Steve Waugh (c)
7. Adam Gilchrist (wk)
8. Mitchell Johnson
9. Pat Cummins
10. Shane Warne
11. Glenn McGrath

Love Richie but picking Benaud over Grimmett is nonsense.And O’Reilly is at least a league or 2 above Grum.

 

[number11]

The only two I'd disagree about are Warner and Thommo. S Waugh is very unlucky.

Some bowlers have better stats than Thommo but no one can shake up line-ups like JT did. I'd want that fear factor.

 

[Silver Line]

Love Richie but picking Benaud over Grimmett is nonsense.And O’Reilly is at least a league or 2 above Grum.

Grimmett averages 33 against England, the only proper side during the 1920s.

O’Reilly averaged 26 against England again the only proper side.

Benaud does the same and in an era less suspicious to cricket. Benaud also adds with the bat. I think Richie is the go mate

 

[Silver Line]

Thomson is very similar to Shoaib, both ridenned by knee injuries at their end. But for a good 5 years they had amazing bowling stats (Shoaib had very phenomenal ones) and induced a legitimate fear factor. Thomson valid to have over bowlers with better stats around his time

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Grimmett averages 33 against England, the only proper side during the 1920s.

O’Reilly averaged 26 against England again the only proper side.

Benaud does the same and in an era less suspicious to cricket. Benaud also adds with the bat. I think Richie is the go mate

South African team of 1935/36 fielded Nourse, Mitchell,Rowan and 4 thirty odd averaging batsman.That’s a proper lineup.Earlier that year, they managed to win a series against England in England.

That England team Grum/O’Reilly bowled to consisted of probably the greatest batting line up of all time and in batting friendly pitches.

 

[Slifer]

Post 70s WI:

Greenidge
Gayle
Viv
Lara
Chanderpaul
Lloyd*
Dujon
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Ambrose

2nd XI

Haynes
Fredricks
Richardson*
Kallicharan
Rowe
Adams
Jacobs
Roberts
Bishop
Croft
Walsh

Pre 70s

Hunte
Stollmeyer
Weekes
Kanhai
Worrell*
Sobers
Walcott+
Hall
Martindale
Ramadhin
Gibbs

 

[number11]

Thomson is very similar to Shoaib, both ridenned by knee injuries at their end. But for a good 5 years they had amazing bowling stats (Shoaib had very phenomenal ones) and induced a legitimate fear factor. Thomson valid to have over bowlers with better stats around his time

I'd always pick Thommo in an Australian XI. Fear factor and raw pace are genuine elements of this game. Thommo in the mid 70s was as fast as anything ever.

 

[Coronis]

Post 70s WI:

Greenidge
Gayle
Viv
Lara
Chanderpaul
Lloyd*
Dujon
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Ambrose

2nd XI

Haynes
Fredricks
Richardson*
Kallicharan
Rowe
Adams
Jacobs
Roberts
Bishop
Croft
Walsh

Pre 70s

Hunte
Stollmeyer
Weekes
Kanhai
Worrell*
Sobers
Walcott+
Hall
Martindale
Ramadhin
Gibbs

Think you forgot a big pre 70’s name…