"Retaining the Trophy"

[Uppercut]

Absolute horseshit concept, should be dumped into the deep ocean. A draw is a draw and a win is a win.

 

[Athlai]

You're right, there should have been another super over

 

[honestbharani]

Absolute horse**** concept, should be dumped into the deep ocean. A draw is a draw and a win is a win.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564959439681196032

 

[Spark]

Nah I think it's fine while home advantage is such a thing and series alternate between the hosts. Means that all else being equal touring sides get a slight equaliser because so long as they did their jobs back home, they only have to draw away.

 

[loterry1994]

Doesn’t matter what it is doesn’t feel great taking a draw and getting back the trophy anyway. That’s a big reason why I ain’t a big fan of the two test series. Felt crap when Aus had the lead the 2019 Ashes during the final stages then for it to end in a draw. Another example is India having that lead away against England 2-1 then having to come back the next year and play the rest the series and ending in a draw

 

[loterry1994]

Nah I think it's fine while home advantage is such a thing and series alternate between the hosts. Means that all else being equal touring sides get a slight equaliser because so long as they did their jobs back home, they only have to draw away.

Doesn’t even matter either way no away team coming in think to draw the series to retain the trophy. If aus draws the ashes the team and aus fans would be disappointed as hell

 

[GIMH]

It is what it is, but games like Durham 2013 and The Oval 2019 were absolutely not dead rubbers (and I’d say this even if the good guys hadn’t triumphed in both)

 

[Anthony Clayden]

Could do a home and away series over the two years, last series in Aus was 4-0 to Aus, currently 2-0 in this series.
So Australia are already 6-0 up over the home and away series.
Given Australia usually win by more test at home than Eng does, I'd support this.

2021- 23 6-0 currently
2017-19 6-2
2013-15 7-3
2010-13 1-6 England last win
2006-09 6-2
2002-05 5-3
1998-01 7-2
1994-97 6-3
1990-93 7-1
1986-89 5-2
1982-85 3-4 England other win in last 40 years.

So 2 series to Eng and 9 to Aus

 

[Prince EWS]

Nah I think it's fine while home advantage is such a thing and series alternate between the hosts. Means that all else being equal touring sides get a slight equaliser because so long as they did their jobs back home, they only have to draw away.

Yeah but sometimes teams will retain a trophy twice in a row.

Maybe we should change the convention to 'draw in away series = win'.

 

[Prince EWS]

You're right, there should have been another super over

Nah count back on boundaries imo.

 

[Uppercut]

Nah I think it's fine while home advantage is such a thing and series alternate between the hosts. Means that all else being equal touring sides get a slight equaliser because so long as they did their jobs back home, they only have to draw away.

But it’s well understood that a drawn away series is a very difficult and creditable achievement. Not the same as a win though.

 

[Prince EWS]

But it’s well understood that a drawn away series is a very difficult and creditable achievement. Not the same as a win though.

As is usually the case, I think the cricketing world deals with this pretty well outside the Ashes.

People lose their minds during the Ashes and apply all sorts of nonsense where they usually wouldn't. Sometimes I'm grumpy about that but I think it's kinda great in a way, even if it pisses me off as a diehard day to day cricket fan.

The Border-Gavaskar Trophy is awarded to the winner of a really massive series. Retaining the trophy is worth a little bit more than just drawing the series when they don't have the trophy, but only a little bit. It's kind of the gold standard in how these things should work.

As much as elements of the Ashes piss me off, though, I reckon we probably have to let Ashes be Ashes.

 

[GIMH]

But @Uppercut how do you handle scenarios like this:

2015 - England win
2017-18 - Australia win via sandpaper
2019 - Draw
2021-22 - Australia lock the England players up to ensure a win

To anyone clear minded England were the last actual winners. Given to anyone fair-minded the two cheat series don’t count, would your position be nobody holds The Ashes because of the draw in 19?

 

[Gob]

Team who last won it get to keep it till the oppo win

What's the issue? There are far more perplexing questions

 

[trundler]

Team who last won it get to keep it till the oppo win

What's the issue? There are far more perplexing questions

Like the ones Joe Root has to answer

 

[Uppercut]

Team who last won it get to keep it till the oppo win

What's the issue? There are far more perplexing questions

My main issue is that when it's taken too seriously, series that should be treated as live are treated as dead.

But anything that resembles claiming draws as wins also just goes against my sporting instincts.

 

[GIMH]

My main issue is that when it's taken too seriously, series that should be treated as live are treated as dead.

But anything that resembles claiming draws as wins also just goes against my sporting instincts.

Can also result in negative cricket. When England claw 2-2 back, there's the temptation for oz to play for the draw. I don't actually think they would, but.

Obviously this can happen when you're leading going into a final game too, but protecting a lead is clearly different to protecting a draw.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

It probably cost the Aussies in the 2019 series. Huge celebrations for retaining the trophy by going 2-1 up at Old Trafford, spoke like they felt their job was done.

Seemed to forget there was a 5th Test where they kinda phoned it in and ended up losing against a weak England side to level the series.

 

[Coronis]

Can also result in negative cricket. When England claw 2-2 back. I don't actually think they would, but.

Good for you to admit this to yourself mate.

 

[Burgey]

It probably cost the Aussies in the 2019 series. Huge celebrations for retaining the trophy by going 2-1 up at Old Trafford, spoke like they felt their job was done.

Seemed to forget there was a 5th Test where they kinda phoned it in and ended up losing against a weak England side to level the series.

Aside from Smith getting concussed being what actually cost them the series, they were on the piss for a week before the fifth test in 2019. Good on them too.