*Official* Second Test (Lord's, London) 28 June–2 July

[morgieb]

What are the odds that it gets sunny when England bat?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Is McGrath that bad? I hadn't actually noticed. Hayden - yeesh.

Not as bad as Hayden but he looks like an old man

 

[TheJediBrah]

"One great going against another'

Nasser obviously not a browser of CW, hence unaware that it's actually a great v an ATVG

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Mark Taylor has barely aged a day since his retirement

Then you look at Matt Hayden and Glenn McGrath who are younger but look elderly

Hayden definitely, but McGrath doesn't really look any significant amount older than he actually is to me

EDIT: too slow

 

[TimAngas]

All the talk about England being bad, throwing their wickets away and such. Do we really think they would have made more runs by batting more traditionally? You can whinge about the dismissals but you can't do that and assume that all the runs made by batting aggressively would still have been there if they hadn't been in this batting mode.

Other than Joe Root I'm not convinced any of this English side would make more runs batting "properly"

Yeah I mean this was the side that had a batting average of 23.60 from the beginning of 2021 until the Bazball era. Since then they're averaging 38. Obviously flat pitches and so on, but people are suffering from some serious recency bias if they thought England's collapses were any less embarrassing in the late Root era.

 

[wpdavid]

All the talk about England being bad, throwing their wickets away and such. Do we really think they would have made more runs by batting more traditionally? You can whinge about the dismissals but you can't do that and assume that all the runs made by batting aggressively would still have been there if they hadn't been in this batting mode.

Other than Joe Root I'm not convinced any of this English side would make more runs batting "properly"

Not convinced, as 325 was hardly a mammoth score in the conditions they faced. And Root's been as guilty as anyone in our last two innings. Plus it's the sheer repetition of the dismissals. Is that now four stumpings to well-set batsmen coming half way down to the pitch against Lyon in the series to date? And was it four or five guys unable to keep the short ball down? Maybe they could try to learn from these things. And it's not actually how they batted last summer or in Pakistan. Bairstow the one exception, especially at Trent Bridge. The year it feels like there's a weird alpha agenda which is actually counter-productive.

 

[wpdavid]

Yeah I mean this was the side that had a batting average of 23.60 from the beginning of 2021 until the Bazball era. Since then they're averaging 38. Obviously flat pitches and so on, but people are suffering from some serious recency bias if they thought England's collapses were any less embarrassing in the late Root era.

Well yes, but we did play test cricket before 2021. And dumping Burns and Sibley has helped too.

 

[Pothas]

All the talk about England being bad, throwing their wickets away and such. Do we really think they would have made more runs by batting more traditionally? You can whinge about the dismissals but you can't do that and assume that all the runs made by batting aggressively would still have been there if they hadn't been in this batting mode.

Other than Joe Root I'm not convinced any of this English side would make more runs batting "properly"

The being aggressive was not the issue. It was all getting out exactly the same way to shots where the odds were so obviously stacked against them. They were 180-1 and in complete control.

 

[Woodster]

if eng lose ashes playing bazball- its time to finish bazball for good- Mccullum career will almost certainly be over or untenable. he will get dumped as Eng never lost a home ashes since 2001, so bazball will be proven a sham(as they played normal cricket in all the other series- and won or drew)

I think when you introduce a whole new approach and way of playing to a side that were really struggling and have immediate success, you don’t throw it all in after a setback, otherwise did you really believe in it in the first place.

It’s been plain to see it has its issues and we don’t get it right, it does need a rethink but I’m not sure it’s a case of finishing with the concept and returning to our previous problems.

 

[RIcho]

Mark Taylor has barely aged a day since his retirement

Then you look at Matt Hayden and Glenn McGrath who are younger but look elderly

Fat don't crack

 

[TimAngas]

I guess the question is, and it would require some serious analysis: what would these batters be averaging if they put away these shots? After stoically wearing a bouncer barrage from these bowlers for no runs, would these guys be good enough to get their feet moving again to avoid nicking off like the England of old?

Obviously England should reassess their tactics to the short ball, but I don't think there's cause to panic for England yet, beyond the 1-0 scoreline which I think humbles Australia slightly.

 

[Nintendo]

I think when you introduce a whole new approach and way of playing to a side that were really struggling and have immediate success, you don’t throw it all in after a setback, otherwise did you really believe in it in the first place.

It’s been plain to see it has its issues and we don’t get it right, it does need a rethink but I’m not sure it’s a case of finishing with the concept and returning to our previous problems.

100% agree. England where 11 from 13 coming into this series under stokes. They just need to get their fielding right and temper down the aggression a bit. There's nothing wrong with milking singles/two's when Australia have the field set for the short ball like they did at the start of yesterday.

 

[Spark]

I guess the question is, and it would require some serious analysis: what would these batters be averaging if they put away these shots? After stoically wearing a bouncer barrage from these bowlers for no runs, would these guys be good enough to get their feet moving again to avoid nicking off like the England of old?

There was no movement and they were hammering anything full before tea on Day 2 so yeah you'd think so.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I think when you introduce a whole new approach and way of playing to a side that were really struggling and have immediate success, you don’t throw it all in after a setback, otherwise did you really believe in it in the first place.

It’s been plain to see it has its issues and we don’t get it right, it does need a rethink but I’m not sure it’s a case of finishing with the concept and returning to our previous problems.

If they could combine the positive approach with the ability to switch gears when needed, they'd be very good. Bending the game to your will IS a positive approach, and that can be done without playing a shot at every single ball. England's approach to the short stuff was baffling yesterday. You can't bat positively if you are out.

 

[TimAngas]

There was no movement and they were hammering anything full before tea on Day 2 so yeah you'd think so.

Sure the conditions were not that difficult, but Australia hadn't really gone consistently short against these batters until that third session.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Sure the conditions were not that difficult, but Australia hadn't really gone consistently short against these batters until that third session.

The look on Brook's face when he got clattered was enjoyable. It will be interesting to see how it plays out over the rest of the series.

 

[trundler]

What's the point of Anderson if he's going to get clubbed under clouds at Lord's

 

[kevinw]

What's the point of Anderson if he's going to get clubbed under clouds at Lord's

He's been crap in the second innings of tests for a while.

 

[TimAngas]

Have we seen enough, re. Anderson?

 

[Alex0paul]

Anderson is done