*Official* First Test (Edgbaston, Birmingham) 16–20 June

[chunksafc]

When considering Stokes declaration and England's Bazball approach you have to do so with the wider concept of what he, McCullum and the ECB are trying to achieve.

On CW, we're all cricket nuts. We spend time debating whether one player who retired 30 years ago is better than another who retired 60 years ago.

We view Stokes' actions in a purely cricketing sense. Was the declaration the right cricketing decision or not.

In England, test cricket is not on free to air TV and hasn't been since 2005. In fact cricket is barely on free to air TV apart from highlights, which until recently were on late at night.

The concern is that as older fans like me die off, where is the next generation of fans coming from when there's no cricket on TV to stimulate their interest.

The ECB want to try to address that with the hundred and with the test team playing an exciting, attacking brand of cricket.

Yes we want to win, of course we do, but it's also about getting new fans in to the sport. In fact thats the key aim.

We lost yesterday but everyone is talking about it. TMS got record figures, for its online updates. Would that have happened if the test was a bore draw - not a chance.

The way we play under Stokes has stimulated interest in test cricket and that's a big part of what the ECB is trying to achieve.

So you can criticise our play at times and the declaration etc but in doing so you're only looking at it from a purely cricketing perspective and there's much more to it than that.

A great balanced post which i broadly agree with. However as i have stated fans of any sport are results driven and IF the exciting cricket doesn't bring results, then casual fans wont bother.

Its caught the imagination at the minute and Sky etc are hyping it, but it wont keep catching the eye if we get spanked 5-0.

The ECB may want "Bazball" to stimulate interest, but they also need to take a long hard look at themselves and the TV deals they have got into.
Tonight and last night in the UK are great examples of the ECB incompetence. The public have been watching a thrilling test match with interest from non-cricketing people, was there any T20 games on TV yesterday evening? (after all a short format with excitement) no, not one was shown by Sky.

Tonight even worse, Sky have absolutley nothing to show on their 465 sports channels tonight apart from repeats. There are two T20 games on that could have easily been shown.

The ECB need more than just exciting test cricket to get back the public interest imo

 

[GIMH]

Just been on a flight so downloaded the TMS podcast from yesterday for it.

Vaughan thinks if England bat first at Lord’s and are at a similar score on day 1, Stokes won’t declare. Cook disagreed and said he’d do the same again.

Weather likely to be better at Lord’s so all not necessarily equal but from hearing his comments I’m not sure it was a factor anyway. I’m inclined to agree with Cook (who also knows Stokes better).

 

[Michelle Fivefer]

Re my constant posting

this will subside in the next test

I got a bit excited in this one as I’m new and it’s great to meet everyone

I love the energy and belief each person has in what they are posting

I’m all for it plus a bit of give and take from each other

Let’s hope Lords is as good a game as Edgbaston

Why are you apologising, Carty? Did someone complain?

 

[CartyDurham]

Why are you apologising, Carty? Did someone complain?

I think some did. Anyway it’s gone

 

[CartyDurham]

A great balanced post which i broadly agree with. However as i have stated fans of any sport are results driven and IF the exciting cricket doesn't bring results, then casual fans wont bother.

Its caught the imagination at the minute and Sky etc are hyping it, but it wont keep catching the eye if we get spanked 5-0.

The ECB may want "Bazball" to stimulate interest, but they also need to take a long hard look at themselves and the TV deals they have got into.
Tonight and last night in the UK are great examples of the ECB incompetence. The public have been watching a thrilling test match with interest from non-cricketing people, was there any T20 games on TV yesterday evening? (after all a short format with excitement) no, not one was shown by Sky.

Tonight even worse, Sky have absolutley nothing to show on their 465 sports channels tonight apart from repeats. There are two T20 games on that could have easily been shown.

The ECB need more than just exciting test cricket to get back the public interest imo

Excellent stuff @chunksafc

 

[Michelle Fivefer]

I think some did. Anyway it’s gone

What's gone??

 

[Michelle Fivefer]

Just been on a flight so downloaded the TMS podcast from yesterday for it.

Vaughan thinks if England bat first at Lord’s and are at a similar score on day 1, Stokes won’t declare. Cook disagreed and said he’d do the same again.

Weather likely to be better at Lord’s so all not necessarily equal but from hearing his comments I’m not sure it was a factor anyway. I’m inclined to agree with Cook (who also knows Stokes better).

MPV is best ignored on any topic.

 

[Ashes81]

does that mean the ecb, england fans and everyone else associated with english cricket are okay with being whitewashed as long as you get record viewership and income as a byproduct of the entertainment?

I've no idea mate - I don't speak on behalf of the ECB, all England fans or everyone to do with cricket.

I can only give my view on what I think the ECB are trying to do and what I think of it.

I think as Stokes says, that we're not driven purely by results but obviously results do matter. We've been very successful under Stokes, and that certainly helps stimulate interest but so to is the way we've played.

We're certainly not trying to save test cricket as some on here have claimed, but we are trying to get more younger people in Britain interested in the game.

I'm a cricket traditionalist and I don't like the way we've played at times. I wasn't mad on the declaration and I think we're too attacking at times.

Take my nephew- he's 18 and is sports mad but doesn't get to see much cricket as he doesn't have Sky Sports at home. I've taken him to T20 matches at Old Trafford but he's not that keen on test cricket.

He's a student at Leeds University, he lives right next to Headingley and he's been massively interested in the Ashes - texting me every 5 minutes for my 'informed view'.

Alot of this interest is how England now play. He can't wait for the next Test, he's going to go to some county games at Headingley.

Hopefully, this will turn into the same lifelong misery of supporting England that I've have had to put up with.

If it does, alot of that will be due to Bazball. That what I think the ECB is trying to achieve.

You can't measure it's success purely on the result of this series.

If we lose but thousands of young kids have their interest in the game stimulated, isn't that more important than whether Stokes declared too early or Root shouldn't have danced down the pitch to Natahn Lyon.

 

[quincywagstaff]

I think England's biggest issue from the Test they need to rectify is how they play Lyon.

It wasn't just the excellent figures Lyon had, but the way they played him. It wasn't as if they were trying to slog him every delivery; their frenetic methods against always made them seem vulnerable as they often played low-percentage shots like cutting off their stumps just to turn the strike over.

 

[Spark]

I think England's biggest issue from the Test they need to rectify is how they play Lyon.

It wasn't just the excellent figures Lyon had, but the way they played him. It wasn't as if they were trying to slog him every delivery; their frenetic methods against always made them seem vulnerable as they often played low-percentage shots like cutting off their stumps just to turn the strike over.

This is honestly the best Lyon has bowled in his career tbf, so it's no easy task. Most of their batsmen are getting done in the air; that's not easy to rectify.

 

[TheJediBrah]

As for number of posts, that’s what the forum is about? Post so we can all have a chat about cricket etc?

I will be very quiet in the next match so that will be relief for everyone

Bro you're great just maybe don't be so sensitive

Not everyone is going to like everything you say. You'll be exhausted if you have to come back at everything

 

[Shri]

It also renders the best bowler in the world in these conditions kinda useless. Pretty dumb if you ask me.

If it hastens his retirement I'll be happy

 

[Michelle Fivefer]

As for number of posts, that’s what the forum is about? Post so we can all have a chat about cricket etc?

I will be very quiet in the next match so that will be relief for everyone

It seems that the number of your posts counts for status purposes. So you're a state vice-captain and I'm a school-girl captain.....
But I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

 

[Ashes81]

A great balanced post which i broadly agree with. However as i have stated fans of any sport are results driven and IF the exciting cricket doesn't bring results, then casual fans wont bother.

Its caught the imagination at the minute and Sky etc are hyping it, but it wont keep catching the eye if we get spanked 5-0.

The ECB may want "Bazball" to stimulate interest, but they also need to take a long hard look at themselves and the TV deals they have got into.
Tonight and last night in the UK are great examples of the ECB incompetence. The public have been watching a thrilling test match with interest from non-cricketing people, was there any T20 games on TV yesterday evening? (after all a short format with excitement) no, not one was shown by Sky.

Tonight even worse, Sky have absolutley nothing to show on their 465 sports channels tonight apart from repeats. There are two T20 games on that could have easily been shown.

The ECB need more than just exciting test cricket to get back the public interest imo

There's no question that if we kept getting beat then that's bound to impact upon how many new people are attracted to the game.

But since Stokes and McCullum came to the helm, we've been unbelievably successful.

We lost a test yesterday by 2 wickets. We all know that it was a test that we should have won. The main reason for that wasn't the declaration or Root trying to reverse ramp the 1st ball of the day.

We lost primarily because our keeper had a shocker. On top of that we didn't have a decent spinner on day 5 as Moeen's finger was bust.

If we'd won yesterday, would we be questioning Cummins' approach. Would the Aussies be looking to change their approach - no of course not and nor should they.

Some on here are talking about whitewashes etc - well I didn't see anything from the 1st test to suggest that is likely to happen.

What I saw was 2 pretty evenly matched teams, who produced a classic test match that we'll all remember for ever.

 

[chunksafc]

There's no question that if we kept getting beat then that's bound to impact upon how many new people are attracted to the game.

But since Stokes and McCullum came to the helm, we've been unbelievably successful.

We lost a test yesterday by 2 wickets. We all know that it was a test that we should have won. The main reason for that wasn't the declaration or Root trying to reverse ramp the 1st ball of the day.

We lost primarily because our keeper had a shocker. On top of that we didn't have a decent spinner on day 5 as Moeen's finger was bust.

If we'd won yesterday, would we be questioning Cummins' approach. Would the Aussies be looking to change their approach - no of course not and nor should they.

Some on here are talking about whitewashes etc - well I didn't see anything from the 1st test to suggest that is likely to happen.

What I saw was 2 pretty evenly matched teams, who produced a classic test match that we'll all remember for ever.

I dont think its a bad thing that questions are asked about certain aspects of the test and how we played, its only natural after a defeat and there will no doubt be questions when we win as well. The vast majority of posts are saying there has to be a touch more balance between all out "bazball" and playing to the conditions / situation.

 

[Molehill]

If we'd won yesterday, would we be questioning Cummins' approach. Would the Aussies be looking to change their approach - no of course not and nor should they.

Some on here are talking about whitewashes etc - well I didn't see anything from the 1st test to suggest that is likely to happen.

What I saw was 2 pretty evenly matched teams, who produced a classic test match that we'll all remember for ever.

I think the Aussies are fully aware their performance was far from perfect and there are things that need to be addressed. They got away with it here, largely thanks to 3 players, they might not be so lucky next time.

 

[Ashes81]

As many of us English supporters have said on here for months, this series will be close.

Obviously our Antipodean 'friends' on here thought otherwise and we've had to put up with their Billy Big Bollocks nonsense since yesterday, but we go into the next Test with every chance of success.

I've always thought at home we have every chance of beating them but the injuries we've suffered to Archer, Leach and Stokes have hurt us alot.

The balance of the side has been effected - we couldn't play Wood for example and we should have a better back up spinner than Moeen.

With Leach and Wood in the team, I think we win that Test- but they aren't and we didn't.

 

[Whitefish]

Quality post this. It's felt very broadcaster-friendly drama which is rarely the same thing as healthy sporting drama long-term. Rawalpindi was great because that legitimately the only forseeable way they could get a result on that thing, but the declaration here and the follow-on decision in NZ didn't feel that way at all to me. They just felt "aggressive" for its own sake. I do take Stokes at his word that he just wanted that little period at stumps to bowl at in which case it's just a mistake rather than performative though.

Yes, I completely agree with you. I also agree about the declaration in this match; there is logic to it as an attempt to win the game, so I don't think it was entirely performative. I'm not even that bothered by it as a tactic.

The thing that most annoys me is the dropping of Foakes. Foakes has played a really important role in Stokes' success as a captain and I think the team is less likely to win without him in it. The fact that Foakes was dropped rather than (say) Crawley suggests that Foakes was seen as less well-suited to the team because of his more conservative batting. If so, that's prioritising excitement over maximising the chances of winning the game.

 

[Croadymeister]

I remember - it was eight years and no subsequent England Ashes series wins ago.

England's players should be more familiar with those conditions but their games are manifestly unsuited to them. The players they've selected pick the line and hit through it like a poor man's Matthew Hayden. That's why they want flat decks. Can you see Duckett, Crawley, Pope and Brook knuckling down to grind out a tough session with the ball decking everywhere? Of course not, because they simply aren't up to it technically or temperamentally.

I will give you that there are justified concerns about most of our batters technique and temperament

 

[CartyDurham]

It seems that the number of your posts counts for status purposes. So you're a state vice-captain and I'm a school-girl captain.....
But I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

I didn’t realise what those thing meant.