*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[NZTailender]

Tickner also a hard leave while he is now playing all 3 formats for NZ.

I was going to initially include him in one of the formats but his numbers doesn't stack up and I think there's other Bowlers better suited to those formats, even some who don't get as much games as Tickner.

 

[NZTailender]

Great concept but then you took the fun out of it by posting three lineups that are very hard to argue with.

Nicholls somehow playing Tests and ODIs regularly despite quite justifiably being left out of that is glorious. Perhaps stiff to leave him out for Bruce, but it's too funny not to.

I'd probably still pick Neesham ahead of either Solia or McConchie though.

EDIT: Oh and also - Dougeh.

Neesham was originally in the ODI side and then I moved him to be the all-rounder in the test side...at which point I replaced him with Smith. Then promptly forgot to put him back into the ODI side.

Other things I considered were Boult in the ODI side, Foxcroft in tests and Southee in the T20 side

 

[Flem274*]

Tickner is in the awkward position of being completely outperformed by Dougeh, Toole and Randell when they play side by side imo.

 

[Prince EWS]

Neesham was originally in the ODI side and then I moved him to be the all-rounder in the test side...at which point I replaced him with Smith. Then promptly forgot to put him back into the ODI side.

Other things I considered were Boult in the ODI side, Foxcroft in tests and Southee in the T20 side

I thought about suggesting swapping Boult with Shipley just to be different, but given Shipley's done well in ODIs so far and played zero Tests I thought I'd probably crossed the rubicon from different to hipster.

 

[ataraxia]

Tickner is in the awkward position of being completely outperformed by Dougeh, Toole and Randell when they play side by side imo.

Yeah – I was thinking of what CD's side should be to start next season (because why not) and it's difficult to resist the urge to drop Tickner.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah – I was thinking of what CD's side should be to start next season (because why not) and it's difficult to resist the urge to drop Tickner.

Dougeh could bat #7 but why when you have Clarkson?

Unless he justifiably walks away for T20 leagues. He's sacrificed a lot of income potential while we've laid out the fluffy towels and silk pillows for our richlisters to come and go from the side as they please.

 

[ataraxia]

Dougeh could bat #7 but why when you have Clarkson?

Unless he justifiably walks away for T20 leagues. He's sacrificed a lot of income potential while we've laid out the fluffy towels and silk pillows for our richlisters to come and go from the side as they please.

And Small + Clark are both quality all-rounders – arguably the better bet if you reeeeeeally need that 5th-choice pacer. I imagine in reality, someone will be injured or Toole will be dropped (given Aldin Smith seems ok with Clarkson as 5th bowler, and that seems a better proposition in spring than autumn Plunket).

 

[Prince EWS]

Dougeh could bat #7 but why when you have Clarkson?

Yeah you're right, Dougeh should bat 5.

 

[Flem274*]

And Small + Clark are both quality all-rounders – arguably the better bet if you reeeeeeally need that 5th-choice pacer. I imagine in reality, someone will be injured or Toole will be dropped (given Aldin Smith seems ok with Clarkson as 5th bowler, and that seems a better proposition in spring than autumn Plunket).

Assuming the inevitable.

Smith/Hay (drag him out for another year lets goooo)
Heaphy
Young
Bruce (c)
Schmulian
Cleaver (wk)
Clarkson
Bracewell
Randell
Ajaz
Toole

If one of the openers sucks then Schmulian has done it before (as has Young...) so Clark or Wiggins (who has also opened tbf) could come in.

 

[Prince EWS]

Wiggins to come straight in as opener if that combo doesn't work out IMO. Genuinely looks an opener to me, and isn't going to knock Cleaver out as keeper.

Tickner will play though. CD's best hope is for him to get picked for the inferior national team so they don't have to fit him in.

 

[Prince EWS]

Alternatively, Bruce could open.

"You think I don't bat high enough, *****? I'll show you batting high enough."
*smokes three cones and then opens the batting*

 

[ataraxia]

Assuming the inevitable.

Smith/Hay (drag him out for another year lets goooo)
Heaphy
Young
Bruce (c)
Schmulian
Cleaver (wk)
Clarkson
Bracewell
Randell
Ajaz
Toole

If one of the openers sucks then Schmulian has done it before (as has Young...) so Clark or Wiggins (who has also opened tbf) could come in.

Gun side tbh – deserved winners this season – with excellent reserves. I'm assuming Young's at the WC, and that Hay will / Heaphy should probably bat 3 as he has since his injury comeback.

 

[ashley bach]

In the last 18 months or so there's been much talk about the selection of Ravindra, but I have to confess I've remained very confused about it all.
Initially I thought he was a spin bowler who batted a bit, then that he could open the batting or even just play as a middle order bat.
I've got a good feeling he could be a valuable mainstay for the Blackcaps for many years but feel he needs to find his place and function.
When he helped save that test in India I was kind of hoping he'd come on quicker given the confidence that should of given him.
So what really is his function guys? Is it as an opening bat, all- rounder, or middle order batsman?
Next question is what format are we talking about, because that also seems about as clear as mud.

 

[Prince EWS]

Rachin is a opening batsman who can bowl semi-serious left arm spin. This has always been true. "Batting allrounder" if you must.

Openers batting lower is common enough so I'm not sure how much we should worry about that, but if he bats 6/7 he should definitely be bowling more than he has recently for NZ.

 

[ashley bach]

@Prince EWS and what format are you thinking?

 

[Prince EWS]

@Prince EWS and what format are you thinking?

I made sure I said something that vaguely applied to any format.

If we want to break it down though I think at this stage he's a totally crap T20 player who should be closer to being dropped from the Wellington team than selected for NZ (although I expect he will get better), and the in the other two formats he should be selected as a batting allrounder (primarily picked on batting but also needs to contribute useful overs or have his spot threatened by someone who can).

 

[SteveNZ]

Rachin is a opening batsman who can bowl semi-serious left arm spin. This has always been true. "Batting allrounder" if you must.

Openers batting lower is common enough so I'm not sure how much we should worry about that, but if he bats 6/7 he should definitely be bowling more than he has recently for NZ.

This is how it is, and should remain.

We aren't at a point where we were in the late 2000s/early 2010s where we had a lack of talent, and had to shoehorn players into roles they weren't accustomed to (think opening batsmen).

Rachin is an opening bat, all formats. He's not a hitter, never will be nor do we want him to be. And how often has he been an opener for NZ? Never. How often has he been an opener for NZ A...is it never? If it's not, it's seldom. Just let the guy stick to one position. In my Test side, he'd be opening with Latham, with Kane at 3, Conway at 4, Young at 5, Mitchell 6 and Blundell 7. Pick and stick.

 

[Prince EWS]

This is how it is, and should remain.

We aren't at a point where we were in the late 2000s/early 2010s where we had a lack of talent, and had to shoehorn players into roles they weren't accustomed to (think opening batsmen).

Rachin is an opening bat, all formats. He's not a hitter, never will be nor do we want him to be. And how often has he been an opener for NZ? Never. How often has he been an opener for NZ A...is it never? If it's not, it's seldom. Just let the guy stick to one position. In my Test side, he'd be opening with Latham, with Kane at 3, Conway at 4, Young at 5, Mitchell 6 and Blundell 7. Pick and stick.

Yep.

He is not Daniel Vettori. He is not a rich man's Mitchell Santner. He is an opening bat.

His bowling shouldn't be a zero factor in his selection - it's seriously useful, and could absolutely justifably tip the balance of Test and ODI teams. I will also say (again) that opening bats batting further down is not a sacrilegious act. But he is an opening bat, and should be treated as such - not as some sort of anti-spin hack.

 

[SteveNZ]

No I agree, it's not a zero factor in selection....if he didn't bowl, I wouldn't be advocating for him being in the Test side. But I am, because I'm not comfortable with Macewell averaging 17 with the bat and bowling. I also think if Conway goes to 4, Young 5, Mitchell 6 and Blundell 7 that is a formidable top order. And you can still play the extra spinner and three spinners.

 

[Days of Grace]

Latham
Ravindra
Williamson
Conway
Young
Mitchell
Blundell
Jamieson
Henry
Southee
Ajaz/Sodhi/Ferguson/Milne/Shipley


Serious lineup

Can the Ship bowl with the old ball?