*Official* Australia in India 2023

[TheJediBrah]

Hazelwood and Cummins are pretty overrated in ODIs. Neither is really among the best few ODI bowlers in the world. Stoinis may be the pits but Green is still far from an established LO cricketer and it remains to be seen how he'll go. I'm not convinced the current version of Maxwell would've done any better than Stoinis.

The best few ODI bowlers in the world would be Starc, Bumrah, Boult, Nortje, Afridi, Rabada, and probably some spinners.

You haven't seen much of Hazlewood last few years have you

 

[trundler]

You haven't seen much of Hazlewood last few years have you

He hasn't really been that special in ODIs. He's done well in T20s but even there he's kept away from the death. He's still somewhat limited to be a top tier ODI pacer imo. The WC would prove or disprove that.

 

[Starfighter]

Siraj was #1 ahead of him before he got spanked senseless in a 10 wicket defeat. It is doubtful whether either Siraj or Haze makes his country's best XI which pretty much proves ODI rankings are meaningless in the JAMODI era.

No I think it's proving that you're coming up with a rather ignorant opinion.

 

[trundler]

No I think it's proving that you're coming up with a rather ignorant opinion.

Well I suppose you're picking Siraj for a world XI right now then.

I watched most of Hazelwood's matches last year and he was fine on some juicy decks but nothing to warrant being among the best bowlers in the world. He did average 29 mostly playing against SL and Zimbabwe. No way would any sensible person pick him ahead of like 5 blokes for an ODI played tomorrow. And that's excluding spinners.

I do see the appeal of defaulting to guys like Jadeja and Haze before a WC because you know they won't crack under pressure and they're gun in the other formats but I don't think they have the right skillset. With 2 spinners in the XI, Haze would have to bowl at the death way more than he normally does and can't just be bowled out in the middle overs. Haze on slow decks is also a lot less threatening. And Jadeja isn't suited to finishing.

 

[TheJediBrah]

He hasn't really been that special in ODIs. He's done well in T20s but even there he's kept away from the death. He's still somewhat limited to be a top tier ODI pacer imo. The WC would prove or disprove that.

He's definitely not suited to these conditions, hence i mentioned he is very likely to miss out on selection for a lot of the tournament. Potentially all of it.

 

[TheJediBrah]

This was a pretty typical Indian wicket from what I could tell and even mediocre spinners were more dangerous than a world class fast bowler. Sure class is class and "pick your best bowlers regardless" is great in theory but there will be pitches where Ashton Agar is a better option than Haze despite being 1/100th of a bowler in comparison

 

[trundler]

He's definitely not suited to these conditions, hence i mentioned he is very likely to miss out on selection for a lot of the tournament. Potentially all of it.

I don't just mean these conditions. Haze is well suited to certain conditions but alright outside of them hence not top tier for me. And he's not a great death bowler.

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

Just on Zampa - how far can he get in terms of being one of the top ODI spinners Australia has produced?

Australia's Most Successful Spin Bowlers - Most Wickets in One Day Internationals

1. Shane Warne: 293 (194 matches)

2. Brad Hogg: 156 (123 matches)

3. Adam Zampa: 131 (79 matches)

4. Peter Taylor: 97 (83 matches)

5. Allan Border: 73 (273 matches)

6. Nathan Hauritz: 63 (58 matches)

7. Glenn Maxwell: 60 (128 matches)

8. Greg Matthews: 57 (59 matches)

9. Michael Clarke: 57 (245 matches)

10. Xavier Doherty: 55 (60 matches)

11. Darren Lehmann: 52 (117 matches)

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

Australian Spinners - 100 Wickets Club: One Day Internationals

Shane Warne
Wickets: 293
Matches: 194
Innings: 190
Bowling Average: 25.82
Average Wickets Taken Per Innings: 1.54
Strike Rate: 36.4
Economy: 4.25
4 wickets in a Match: 12
5 wickets in Match: 1
Best Bowling in Match: 5/33


Brad Hogg
Wickets: 156
Matches: 123
Innings: 113
Bowling Average: 26.84
Average Wickets Taken Per Innings: 1.38
Strike Rate: 35.6
Economy: 4.51
4 Wickets in a Match: 3
5 wickets in Match: 2
Best Bowling in Match: 5/32


Adam Zampa
Wickets: 131
Matches: 79
Innings: 79
Bowling Average: 28.46
Average Wickets Taken Per Innings: 1.65
Strike Rate: 31.4
Economy: 5.42
4 Wickets in a Match: 7
5 wickets in Match: 1
Best Bowling in Match: 5/35

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Doherty being between Michael Clarke and Darren Lehmann as a bowler feels strangely appropriate

 

[Daemon]

i see jadeja decided to replicate my efforts from the weekend

 

[Shady Slim]

This was a pretty typical Indian wicket from what I could tell and even mediocre spinners were more dangerous than a world class fast bowler. Sure class is class and "pick your best bowlers regardless" is great in theory but there will be pitches where Ashton Agar is a better option than Haze despite being 1/100th of a bowler in comparison

they're doing this by design though because in the WC every pitch is going to be a 350 plays 300 pancake to get the crowds in

and if they can trick us into thinking mid spinners are not incorrect selections that'll go a long way to them beating us on the dance floor

 

[TheJediBrah]

I don't just mean these conditions. Haze is well suited to certain conditions but alright outside of them hence not top tier for me. And he's not a great death bowler.

Who cares if he's a great death bowler if that's not his job? There's 3 or 4 other bowlers in the team to do that.

Shane Warne wasn't a great new-ball bowler, not really a mark against him though

 

[Burgey]

Neser should play ahead of Abbott

Abbott is a lot better LO cricketer than Neser tbh

 

[Burgey]

Who would you bring Green for ? Stoinis?
But I feel Stoinis bowling is more effective on these pitches than Green

That may be to an extent but I think Green has much more upside with the bat and in the field

 

[trundler]

Who cares if he's a great death bowler if that's not his job? There's 3 or 4 other bowlers in the team to do that.

Shane Warne wasn't a great new-ball bowler, not really a mark against him though

He can't be a better bowler than someone who's equally good with the new bowl and much better at the death. And the skillset that enables someone to be great at the death also allows them to be more useful on dead pitches.

 

[trundler]

Abbott is a lot better LO cricketer than Neser tbh

Was doing my best social impression, can't claim to know anything about Aussie fringe players though I do rate Abbott and Ellis

 

[G. S. Kohli]

Congratulation all australian supporter for series win in india By 2/1

Adam Zampa MOTM
Mitchell Marsh POTS
Congratulation



Aus's 8th wkt (42) & Last wkt (22) scored plenty which india not able to match up, Aus hit more 4-'s & more 6-'s. India did the Batting order changes that hurts them.

- Adam Zampa’s 4/45 today was the first four-wicket haul for a visiting spinner against India since Ajantha Mendis’ 4/73 in Ranchi in 2014. The last Australian to do so was Brad Hogg: 4/49 (Nagpur, 2007).

 

[G. S. Kohli]

Australia in ODIs in Chennai (includes neutral ODIs):
Matches: 6
Won: 5
Lost: 1 (vs India, 2017)

India’s last five series defeats at home:
2-1 vs AUS, 2023
3-2 vs AUS, 2019
3-2 vs SA, 2015
2-1 vs PAK, 2012/13
4-2 vs AUS, 2009

India in their last 10 bilateral ODI series at home:
Lost 1-2 vs AUS, 2023
Won 3-0 vs NZ, 2023
Won 3-0 vs SL, 2023
Won 2-1 vs SA, 2022
Won 3-0 vs WI, 2022
Won 2-1 vs ENG, 2021
Won 2-1 vs AUS, 2020
Won 2-1 vs WI, 2019
Lost 2-3 vs AUS, 2019
Won 3-1 vs WI, 2018

- India’s first series defeat at home since they went down 2-3 against Australia in March 2019. They had won each of their seven thereafter.

 

[Shady Slim]

Congratulation all australian supporter for series win in india By 2/1

Aus's 8th wkt (42) & Last wkt (22) scored plenty which india not able to match up, Aus hit more 4-'s & more 6-'s. India did the Batting order changes that hurts them.

- Adam Zampa’s 4/45 today was the first four-wicket haul for a visiting spinner against India since Ajantha Mendis’ 4/73 in Ranchi in 2014. The last Australian to do so was Brad Hogg: 4/49 (Nagpur, 2007).

this is quite the interesting point and says a lot about how india's batting a) has been a juggernaut until quite recently and also b) visiting spinners get obliterated when they go there