Graeme Smith vs Matthew Hayden

[PlayerComparisons]

Interesting that this was competitive a few months ago but not anymore

Yeah 18-4 was unexpected lol

 

[BazBall21]

Yeah 18-4 was unexpected lol

I did a poll on this a few months ago and Smith won by a single vote haha. Smith v Sehwag would have been better. Both highly regarded on here.

 

[Coronis]

I did a poll on this a few months ago and Smith won by a single vote haha. Smith v Sehwag would have been better. Both highly regarded on here.

fwiw

CW's Ranking of Opening Batsmen (Tests)

Amiss Langer

www.cricketweb.net

CW's Top 50 Test Batsmen. 2022 Results

Firstly, my thanks @gftw for initiating the voting thread and thanks to all who contributed votes and comments. With voting and comments dwindling, it was felt we should stop at a final Top 50. I have added stats to the list as a matter of interest and for discussion points and here is the...

www.cricketweb.net

Interesting differences in these threads, which happened not that far apart. According to the batsmen list, the top openers were: Hobbs, Hutton, Gavaskar, Sutcliffe, Boycott, Trumper, Simpson, Smith, Sehwag, Hayden, Greenidge.

Whilst in the openers thread we have: Hobbs, Hutton, Gavaskar, Sutcliffe, Boycott, Smith, Simpson, Greenidge, Sehwag, Richards, Hayden. - Trumper 15th

tbf both Simpson and Trumper spent a fair amount of time down the order at points. (wow didn’t realise Trumper was so much better down the order, guess his drop is pretty fair)

 

[Prince EWS]

fwiw

CW's Ranking of Opening Batsmen (Tests)

Amiss Langer

www.cricketweb.net

CW's Top 50 Test Batsmen. 2022 Results

Firstly, my thanks @gftw for initiating the voting thread and thanks to all who contributed votes and comments. With voting and comments dwindling, it was felt we should stop at a final Top 50. I have added stats to the list as a matter of interest and for discussion points and here is the...

www.cricketweb.net

Interesting differences in these threads, which happened not that far apart. According to the batsmen list, the top openers were: Hobbs, Hutton, Gavaskar, Sutcliffe, Boycott, Trumper, Simpson, Smith, Sehwag, Hayden, Greenidge.

Whilst in the openers thread we have: Hobbs, Hutton, Gavaskar, Sutcliffe, Boycott, Smith, Simpson, Greenidge, Sehwag, Richards, Hayden. - Trumper 15th

tbf both Simpson and Trumper spent a fair amount of time down the order at points. (wow didn’t realise Trumper was so much better down the order, guess his drop is pretty fair)

Yeah Trumper's drop makes sense I think.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Daily reminder head to head > wade to wade

 

[The Sean]

fwiw

CW's Ranking of Opening Batsmen (Tests)

Amiss Langer

www.cricketweb.net

CW's Top 50 Test Batsmen. 2022 Results

Firstly, my thanks @gftw for initiating the voting thread and thanks to all who contributed votes and comments. With voting and comments dwindling, it was felt we should stop at a final Top 50. I have added stats to the list as a matter of interest and for discussion points and here is the...

www.cricketweb.net

Interesting differences in these threads, which happened not that far apart. According to the batsmen list, the top openers were: Hobbs, Hutton, Gavaskar, Sutcliffe, Boycott, Trumper, Simpson, Smith, Sehwag, Hayden, Greenidge.

Whilst in the openers thread we have: Hobbs, Hutton, Gavaskar, Sutcliffe, Boycott, Smith, Simpson, Greenidge, Sehwag, Richards, Hayden. - Trumper 15th

tbf both Simpson and Trumper spent a fair amount of time down the order at points. (wow didn’t realise Trumper was so much better down the order, guess his drop is pretty fair)

Yeah Trumper's drop makes sense I think.

Yeah I think I might have argued against it at the time but in hindsight it makes sense. Trumper was nominally an opener, insofar as he batted there far more often than anywhere else, but he was statistically more successful in the middle order.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah I think I might have argued against it at the time but in hindsight it makes sense. Trumper was nominally an opener, insofar as he batted there far more often than anywhere else, but he was statistically more successful in the middle order.

Yeah I'd have Trumper a fair bit higher on the openers list than that but there's definitely some logic in him being further up the 'best batsmen who usually opened' list than the 'best openers' list.

 

[a massive zebra]

This is a joke comparison, right? It's obviously Smith by a long way. If Hayden had been born ten years either side of when he was, he would have probably struggled to make it as a Test match batsman.

 

[BazBall21]

I don’t think Smith would have been much better than Kirsten in the 90s but Hayden was lucky to barely play in the 90s which protected his record from that early career hinderance and then play 89% of his career in the flat tracks era. So nearly all his career was a batting era in a dominant team and an inflated percentage of his career was his prime years. His weaknesses against pace and movement are well-documented. Smith is a little overrated on here imho but it’s probably still him.

 

[subshakerz]

I don’t think Smith would have been much better than Kirsten in the 90s but Hayden was lucky to barely play in the 90s which protected his record from that early career hinderance and then play 89% of his career in the flat tracks era. So nearly all his career was a batting era in a dominant team and an inflated percentage of his career was his prime years. His weaknesses against pace and movement are well-documented. Smith is a little overrated on here imho but it’s probably still him.

Yeah overall Smith would be around Kirsten of mid 40s level in the 90s, still scoring heavily against NZ and England. Sehwag and Hayden would average maybe early 40s at best as openers.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Smith is a little overrated on here imho but it’s probably still him.

You couch too many of your player opinions in comparison to how highly Cw rates them. Weak.

Own your takes like an alpha.

 

[Raz0r6ack]

I don’t think Smith would have been much better than Kirsten in the 90s but Hayden was lucky to barely play in the 90s which protected his record from that early career hinderance and then play 89% of his career in the flat tracks era. So nearly all his career was a batting era in a dominant team and an inflated percentage of his career was his prime years. His weaknesses against pace and movement are well-documented. Smith is a little overrated on here imho but it’s probably still him.

A batsmen's prime usually comes between ages 27-33. Hayden didn't get back into the team consistently until he was 29 and he played until he was 37. Around 50 of his 103 Tests were played in his prime years. Smith played 56 of his 117 Tests in his prime years.

Hayden actually played in lower scoring Tests (32.43 rpw) then what Smith did (32.97 rpw). Smith played on just as many flat wickets throughout his career as Hayden did. Both played with great middle orders and great bowling lineups.

By contrast for Gary Kirsten during the 1990s it was 28.54 rpw. Michael Slater's career was 30.08 rpw. Michael Atherton 30.01 rpw. Joe Root since Jan 2017 is 28.41 rpw.

Yeah overall Smith would be around Kirsten of mid 40s level in the 90s, still scoring heavily against NZ and England. Sehwag and Hayden would average maybe early 40s at best as openers.

Kirsten's average was above 40 in only 9 of the 54 Tests he played during the 1990s. He averaged mid-high 30's for most of the 90s.

 

[Himannv]

Oooh, are we still doing these?

Hayden isn't fit to tie Smith's shoelaces.

 

[Howe_zat]

They're both unambigiously awful as an influence on the sport in general, but I'm pretty much always surprised by how much the high scoring 2000s is used as a stick to beat Hayden with as though it doesn't apply to anyone else. Smith played like 3 years later and took advantage of a lot of flat tracks, like at Perth in 2008 or Lords in 2003. Had no problems bullying Banglaedsh and Zimbabwe either. There's really not much between these two.

 

[BazBall21]

They're both unambigiously awful as an influence on the sport in general, but I'm pretty much always surprised by how much the high scoring 2000s is used as a stick to beat Hayden with as though it doesn't apply to anyone else. Smith played like 3 years later and took advantage of a lot of flat tracks, like at Perth in 2008 or Lords in 2003. Had no problems bullying Banglaedsh and Zimbabwe either. There's really not much between these two.

Smith did a fair bit of statpadding and has a poor record in Tests against the best bowlers of his era. He is slightly overrated.

 

[subshakerz]

They're both unambigiously awful as an influence on the sport in general, but I'm pretty much always surprised by how much the high scoring 2000s is used as a stick to beat Hayden with as though it doesn't apply to anyone else. Smith played like 3 years later and took advantage of a lot of flat tracks, like at Perth in 2008 or Lords in 2003. Had no problems bullying Banglaedsh and Zimbabwe either. There's really not much between these two.

Smith was far better in swinging conditions in Eng, NZ and SA

Plus impact-wise, Smith never scored a ton in a losing cause. Had four tons in chases including an ATG knock.

 

[BazBall21]

A batsmen's prime usually comes between ages 27-33. Hayden didn't get back into the team consistently until he was 29 and he played until he was 37. Around 50 of his 103 Tests were played in his prime years. Smith played 56 of his 117 Tests in his prime years.

Hayden actually played in lower scoring Tests (32.43 rpw) then what Smith did (32.97 rpw). Smith played on just as many flat wickets throughout his career as Hayden did. Both played with great middle orders and great bowling lineups.

By contrast for Gary Kirsten during the 1990s it was 28.54 rpw. Michael Slater's career was 30.08 rpw. Michael Atherton 30.01 rpw. Joe Root since Jan 2017 is 28.41 rpw.


Kirsten's average was above 40 in only 9 of the 54 Tests he played during the 1990s. He averaged mid-high 30's for most of the 90s.

Great stats. Is there a website for them or did you work it out yourself?

 

[BazBall21]

Smith was far better in swinging conditions

Tbf I think the conditions were more bowler-friendly in the 2005 Ashes than SA’s tours of England.

 

[Howe_zat]

Smith was far better in swinging conditions

I would buy an argument for this - though if your evidence for this is averages in whatever country it's basically dead in the water - but if if so, who cares? Neither of them had to do it very often.

 

[Archer6K]

Great stats. Is there a website for them or did you work it out yourself?

If you click on the hyperlink, it's from Statsguru