_00_deathscar
International Regular
Why? As the lone spinner like Jadeja when he’s selected overseas. Is the Australian pace attack that ****?
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Ravindra Jadeja vs Nathan Lyon
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Jadeja is used differently than Lyon overseas.
Compare their most recent tours of England, Lyon bowled something like 100 more overs than Jadeja, while they were both sole spinners.
Jadeja is very much a support bowler away from the SC. Lyon is expected to win Australia matches or at least take enough wickets to contribute towards victory.
Spark
Global Moderator
How so?
_00_deathscar
International Regular
But they’ve also lost two series at home to India - which he’s at fault for. Why do you let him keep getting away with that?
_00_deathscar
International Regular
“Bowl (fast and) straight“
Spark
Global Moderator
But that's a left arm spinner bowling to right handers where he's turning away from the bat. What I'm talking about is Lyon, an right arm off-spinner, bowling too straight and basically bowling on the batsman's hip and getting worked around the corner.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Lol a team loses not an individual.
Gob
International Coach
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Pro Jadeja supporters like to conveniently overlook the fact that away from home, he is not even good enough to be a frontline bowler.
Jadeja has taken 48 wickets in 19 games in SENA while bowling around 35 overs on average a game. So he is somewhere between part timer and full bowler level here and used to give keep things tight and give rest to the main bowlers.
Lyon bowls around 40 overs and takes nearly 4 wickets a game in these same conditions. Clearly is expected to win games on 4th and 5th day pitches even if he doesn't deliver every game.
The quality difference between Jadeja and Lyon should be clear.
Blindingly obvious that Jadeja is pretty much a product of spiced up pitches at home that even ordinary spinners can seem like champions on. You take those away and he looks nowhere near resembling the same bowler, with no skill to run through a side where other Indian spinners have done so.
This poll is a big discredit to CW's posters that they can't see such an obvious fact and are so swayed by raw averages.
Jadeja has taken 48 wickets in 19 games in SENA while bowling around 35 overs on average a game. So he is somewhere between part timer and full bowler level here and used to give keep things tight and give rest to the main bowlers.
Lyon bowls around 40 overs and takes nearly 4 wickets a game in these same conditions. Clearly is expected to win games on 4th and 5th day pitches even if he doesn't deliver every game.
The quality difference between Jadeja and Lyon should be clear.
Blindingly obvious that Jadeja is pretty much a product of spiced up pitches at home that even ordinary spinners can seem like champions on. You take those away and he looks nowhere near resembling the same bowler, with no skill to run through a side where other Indian spinners have done so.
This poll is a big discredit to CW's posters that they can't see such an obvious fact and are so swayed by raw averages.
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subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
_00_deathscar
International Regular
So when’s the last time he bowled them to a series win in England? And I ask again, or is the Australian pace attack just not very good?
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
He did far more in getting Australia to draw in England in 2019 than Jadeja did for India in 2021/22.
Daemon
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Ashwin>Lyon>Jadeja as spinners
Jadeja is a cheat code at home but even there Lyon has matched him in the last two series. Away from home you’d pick Lyon (ignoring batting).
Lyon’s weakness imo is basically shitting the bed when under pressure. His teammates describe how nervous he is and it clearly gets to him like it did in Headingly.
Lyon also has the benefit of bowling with a very good pace attack that almost always dominates at home. All he has to do there is usually rock up and take a few wickets generated by pressure from the quicks. He’s still pretty good obv but this partially offsets the whole averaging 30 in finger spin graveyard argument.
Jadeja is a cheat code at home but even there Lyon has matched him in the last two series. Away from home you’d pick Lyon (ignoring batting).
Lyon’s weakness imo is basically shitting the bed when under pressure. His teammates describe how nervous he is and it clearly gets to him like it did in Headingly.
Lyon also has the benefit of bowling with a very good pace attack that almost always dominates at home. All he has to do there is usually rock up and take a few wickets generated by pressure from the quicks. He’s still pretty good obv but this partially offsets the whole averaging 30 in finger spin graveyard argument.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
I agree with your points but isn't this counteracted by Jadeja having pressure from Ashwin/Axar plus very good pace bowling at home?
Daemon
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Axar’s been a non factor in Jadeja’s career.
Ashwin helps Jadeja yes. I would say the quicks also benefit from Ash/Jadeja more than the other way round.
OverratedSanity
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Lyon matching Jadeja's bowling in India on the last two tours is accurate but so is the fact that Jadeja(and Ashwin) have completely out bowled Lyon in his own conditions in Australia over the last two tours. Ashwin had one very good test at Adelaide in the 2019 tour in addition to the 2021 series , Jadeja was pretty great in 2021 too. And Lyon got dominated hard in those games. So I'm not sure I entirely buy the idea that Jadeja would be useless there.
Jadeja's biggest weakness (apart from the no balls) is his lack of patience imo. Was extremely frustrating watching him in England where after a few overs of being toothless, he'd fire in random half volleys almost in a weird attempt to york the batsman. His relative lack of perseverance and inability to change trajectory without losing his radar really show when he tours there and is asked to be the lone spinner.
Jadeja's biggest weakness (apart from the no balls) is his lack of patience imo. Was extremely frustrating watching him in England where after a few overs of being toothless, he'd fire in random half volleys almost in a weird attempt to york the batsman. His relative lack of perseverance and inability to change trajectory without losing his radar really show when he tours there and is asked to be the lone spinner.
Daemon
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Don’t think anyone said this tbf