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Ravindra Jadeja vs Nathan Lyon

Who is the better test bowler?

  • Ravindra Jadeja

    Votes: 23 53.5%

  • Nathan Lyon

    Votes: 20 46.5%
  • Total voters
    43
Howe_zat

Howe_zat

Audio File
As a hypothetical, I reckon Jadeja would have played a lot of matches for Australia if he was up against Lyon for selection. People forget that early in Lyon's career he was repeatedly dropped for anyone who could bowl 'about as well' (even if they couldn't) but could also be a better allround package, which pretty much all specialist finger spinners have to fight against, but especially in Australia. Maxwell, Agar and Doherty all got a Test gig ahead of Lyon in 2012-2013. By that time Jadeja was already hitting huge runs in Ranji even if he wasn't established much in Tests yet, so I think he'd have gotten a good run and been pretty hard to shift for a specilist.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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Daemon said:
Dunno about other countries but he wouldn’t be picked ahead of Lyon at home I think. Doesn’t mean he’s useless there.
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That seems like an extraordinarily kind interpretation of what that post said tbh. If all he meant was that Jadeja would struggle to get selected ahead of Lyon, sure (ignoring the fact that Lyon has actually been dropped a lot). That doesn't really mean anything though. A lot of good bowlers wouldn't be selected ahead of any of the Australian bowlers in their own conditions.

The implication clearly was that Jadeja would be close to useless as a bowler on his own merits which is probably nonsense. If that's not what was meant, then OK ?
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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trundler said:
It has been true of Jadeja at times though. He looked rank in NZ and England. Lyon wouldn't win matches singlehandedly in India like Jadeja but he's never looked that bad when the pitch doesn't offer him help. Lyon's just better imo.
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Oh I agree. You've just repeated stuff I already said.

I just think it's wrong to ignore that Jadeja has done well in Australia in series where Lyon got pounded into the dust.
 
Prince EWS

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
OverratedSanity said:
Oh I agree. You've just repeated stuff I already said.

I just think it's wrong to ignore that Jadeja has done well in Australia in series where Lyon got pounded into the dust.
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Part of this is just the fact that India batted much better than Australia in that series.

Agree that Jadeja genuinely bowled better regardless though. One of Lyon's lowest points.
 
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subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
OverratedSanity said:
Oh I agree. You've just repeated stuff I already said.

I just think it's wrong to ignore that Jadeja has done well in Australia in series where Lyon got pounded into the dust.
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Jadeja did well in Australia as a sort of a support bowler to the quickies. I don't know why you ignore that his role is fundamentally different than a frontline spinner like Lyon or even Ashwin who outbowled him in 2021 or Yadav in 2018.

You are making a lot out of Jadeja's four tests whereas Lyon having some off series is not as relevant as Lyon has had an entire career we can assess in Australia. And you agree that in Eng he has been next to useless too.
 
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subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Howe_zat said:
As a hypothetical, I reckon Jadeja would have played a lot of matches for Australia if he was up against Lyon for selection. People forget that early in Lyon's career he was repeatedly dropped for anyone who could bowl 'about as well' (even if they couldn't) but could also be a better allround package, which pretty much all specialist finger spinners have to fight against, but especially in Australia. Maxwell, Agar and Doherty all got a Test gig ahead of Lyon in 2012-2013. By that time Jadeja was already hitting huge runs in Ranji even if he wasn't established much in Tests yet, so I think he'd have gotten a good run and been pretty hard to shift for a specilist.
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As an all-rounder, sure. As a specialist spinner, unlikely.
 
Daemon

Daemon

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subshakerz said:
Jadeja did well in Australia as a sort of a support bowler to the quickies. I don't know why you ignore that his role is fundamentally different than a frontline spinner like Lyon
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Lyon in Australia is a support bowler to the quicks. All he does is take wickets once pressure’s been built. This is dumb.

If your argument is small sample size then yes that’s true.
 
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subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Daemon said:
Lyon in Australia is a support bowler to the quicks. All he does is take wickets once pressure’s been built. This is dumb.

If your argument is small sample size then yes that’s true.
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Sample sample size yes.

Also by support bowler, it means he wasn't played to be the wicket-taker but to keep things tight. In 2021, his bowling load was also less than a frontline bowler.
 
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subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
OverratedSanity said:
That seems like an extraordinarily kind interpretation of what that post said tbh. If all he meant was that Jadeja would struggle to get selected ahead of Lyon, sure (ignoring the fact that Lyon has actually been dropped a lot). That doesn't really mean anything though. A lot of good bowlers wouldn't be selected ahead of any of the Australian bowlers in their own conditions.

The implication clearly was that Jadeja would be close to useless as a bowler on his own merits which is probably nonsense. If that's not what was meant, then OK ?
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I said that outside SC, Jadeja doesn't resemble the same bowler at all and is mostly a support rather than strike or frontline bowler.

Lyon, on the other hand, is a frontline bowler for Australia pretty much everywhere.

Do you disagree?
 
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