Virat Kohli vs VVS Laxman

[Socerer 01]

this is all building up to the final boss comparison thread - Sehwag vs Laxman

 

[Chrish]

Comparing opener with anyone is bullshit

 

[subshakerz]

Comparing opener with anyone is bull****

Why? So Gavaskar, Hutton et all should be removed from ATG batter rankings?

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Kohli easily.Not close at all.

 

[Chrish]

Why? So Gavaskar, Hutton et all should be removed from ATG batter rankings?

They are ATG batsmen but can’t be reasonably compared with middle order batsmen..

Opener plays fundamentally different role. They face new ball that would swing; pace bowler in full-flow as well as fielders that are well-rested. Their comparison with other batsmen is meaningless IMO.

 

[subshakerz]

They are ATG batsmen but can’t be reasonably compared with middle order batsmen..

Opener plays fundamentally different role. They face new ball that would swing; pace bowler in full-flow as well as fielders that are well-rested. Their comparison with other batsmen is meaningless IMO.

Really? So a no.3 like Ponting is worlds away from an opener like Hayden?

 

[trundler]

Its weird, I never see those people who were commenting that late career slumps don’t affect their rating of players in Kohli discussions.

One of the first few posts in another Kohli comparison thread going on right now.

This is ridiculous. Someone failing to add to their achievements doesn't mean they retrospectively were worse.

pEoPlE doN'T beLiEve WhAT tHeY aRGue is the coward's refuge. You're just making **** up.

 

[BazBall21]

Nobody would say that Kohli was Tendulkar's level, but that if he continued in that sort of form, the comparison would be merited.

Kohli until end of 2019 was definitely ahead of Dravid for me.

Never took the Tendulkar comparison in Tests seriously but yeah agree on Kohli/Dravid.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Nah VVS pisses that one. Considerably better player, especially if you take into account how underrated an ODI player he was

He wasn't a good ODI player. Played a couple very good knocks in the ODI tri series in 2003/04 but other than that he was never a serious threat

 

[subshakerz]

Never took the Tendulkar comparison in Tests seriously but yeah agree on Kohli/Dravid.

If Kohli was still averaging 55 now as he was during his peak then of course that comparison with Tendulkar would be merited. Tendulkar still better tho

 

[Coronis]

Are you just making **** up out of nowhere lol? Laxman has 3 votes.

I rate Kohli much higher than Laxman regardless of his decline and I'm the biggest vvs fanboy on the forum.

Its not about Kohli vs Laxman in particular, its a general statement about people who say slumps don’t matter and then go around and say oh if you asked me a few years ago it would be Kohli. I just happened to post in this thread since it was the current Kohli thread going around.

One of the first few posts in another Kohli comparison thread going on right now.



pEoPlE doN'T beLiEve WhAT tHeY aRGue is the coward's refuge. You're just making **** up.

Literally a post made after mine.. I forgot to bring my crystal ball again. The comment wasn’t directed at you/Howe/any one poster.

 

[_00_deathscar]

There’s late career slumps, and then there’s whatever Kohli is going through.

 

[BazBall21]

If Kohli was still averaging 55 now as he was during his peak then of course that comparison with Tendulkar would be merited. Tendulkar still better tho

What people also don’t realise is Dravid had a bad run that was rated as comparable to Kohli’s relative to conditions, but he did briefly return to form and enjoy an ATG tour. Kohli needs to do that soon somehow. Think he was better than Dravid at his best. Fair point on Tendulkar, I just never thought that was seriously going to happen.

 

[OverratedSanity]

What people also don’t realise is Dravid had a bad run that was rated as comparable to Kohli’s relative to conditions, but he did briefly return to form and enjoy an ATG tour. Kohli needs to do that soon somehow. Think he was better than Dravid at his best. Fair point on Tendulkar, I just never thought that was seriously going to happen.

Dravid's mediocre stretches of form (some patches in the mid-late 2000s) were nowhere near this long. Kohli has averaged in the 20s for well over 3 and a half years now.

 

[ZK$]

its a general statement about people who say slumps don’t matter and then go around and say oh if you asked me a few years ago it would be Kohli.

Who said this? I’ve never seen anyone say both.

 

[BazBall21]

Dravid's mediocre stretches of form (some patches in the mid-late 2000s) were nowhere near this long. Kohli has averaged in the 20s for well over 3 and a half years now.

Yeah. Kohli’s has gone on for longer now I think.

 

[Flem274*]

Tbh people just see a batsman in God mode and get pretty hyped so they extrapolate the standard career out to come to the conclusion "yeah, Tendulkar class."

It's understandable excitement and I'd rather we got really into the game like that rather than be hedgy, cagey and boring robots when posting. I don't think anyone could have reasonably predicted Kohli would collapse this hard either, so beating people over the head with 20/20 hindsight bias is a bit harsh.

Kohli had an incredible peak across all three formats at the beginning of an era where genuine 50+ batsmen were becoming more and more scarce and are at a premium in 2023. I don't really blame people for both cooling down on him and also the initial wave of admiration.

Kohli is 34 and has 100+ tests to his name at a 48 average with some amazing innings and a ridiculous peak that was directly influential to India's rise from their 2011ish trough. He is already a massive success even if he retires tomorrow and one of the very best of his generation. I don't think he is too far off Ponting and Dravid. I'd need to give it some thought.

 

[Chrish]

To be fair to Kohli, wickets he has batted on in last 5-6 years in India, they are unlike anything else.

Before then, wickets used to spin, but usually after day 3-4 and 400+ scores were fairly common. If opposition coped one rank-turner in a series, there used to be huge uproar about unfair wicket.

Compare that to now where fans and teams alike, are surprised if it’s not a raging turner!

I feel confident Kohli would be averaging 50 had he played in VVS era.

 

[Coronis]

Tbh people just see a batsman in God mode and get pretty hyped so they extrapolate the standard career out to come to the conclusion "yeah, Tendulkar class."

It's understandable excitement and I'd rather we got really into the game like that rather than be hedgy, cagey and boring robots when posting. I don't think anyone could have reasonably predicted Kohli would collapse this hard either, so beating people over the head with 20/20 hindsight bias is a bit harsh.

Kohli had an incredible peak across all three formats at the beginning of an era where genuine 50+ batsmen were becoming more and more scarce and are at a premium in 2023. I don't really blame people for both cooling down on him and also the initial wave of admiration.

Kohli is 34 and has 100+ tests to his name at a 48 average with some amazing innings and a ridiculous peak that was directly influential to India's rise from their 2011ish trough. He is already a massive success even if he retires tomorrow and one of the very best of his generation. I don't think he is too far off Ponting and Dravid. I'd need to give it some thought.

This is also probably a reason as to why players who have peaks at the beginnings of their career end up being rated higher. i.e their potential is seen as much higher and its all “this guy could be the next x” rather than someone who peaks later on, when a lot of people have already made up their mind about them, and it would take an exceptional run to increase peoples view of them.

 

[duffer]

To be fair to Kohli, wickets he has batted on in last 5-6 years in India, they are unlike anything else.

Before then, wickets used to spin, but usually after day 3-4 and 400+ scores were fairly common. If opposition coped one rank-turner in a series, there used to be huge uproar about unfair wicket.

Compare that to now where fans and teams alike, are surprised if it’s not a raging turner!

I feel confident Kohli would be averaging 50 had he played in VVS era.

Like 53ish at least