Ravindra Jadeja vs Nathan Lyon

[Burgey]

He’ll need to get on with it.

 

[subshakerz]

Who do you thinks better between Lyon and Ashwin dude?

Ashwin just barely, thanks to the mountain of wickets he already has.

 

[CricAddict]

Laxman recently comfortably beat both Yousuf / Jayawardene in the poll . So , no I have no problem if someone rates Lyon above Jadeja imo when Jadeja’s performance as a spinner away from home as spinner to similar to Labuschagne as a bat .

I can remember more match winning performance from Jadeja as a batsman overseas than bowler

That was not the point I was arguing. He said poor Lyon needed this 8-fer for the forum to rate him higher than Jadeja which is not right.

 

[Sunil1z]

That was not the point I was arguing. He said poor Lyon needed this 8-fer for the forum to rate him higher than Jadeja which is not right.

I was arguing with your other point.

 

[subshakerz]

I’m surprised at the number of people saying lyon is a better bowler than Jadeja tbh. I think it’s really not that easy to work out because their career trajectories are so different.

By that I mean it’s not jadeja’s fault he hasn’t always been picked everywhere. I suspect if he had been his average would go up a bit, but I’m not convinced it would get as high as Lyon’s. I’m probably a bit coloured by his Midas touch against our blokes but he’s quality. I think he wins this comparison, not easily but not line ball either, if that makes sense. And I say that as a lyon fan.

This series is pretty much proof that you don't have to be a top drawer spinner to take buckets of wickets in Indian conditions and end up with pretty figures, as Jadeja has done this last decade.

Take Jadeja outside India and give him a different non-SC home country, and with his current MO he would struggle to be selected as a bowler alone.

 

[subshakerz]

That was not the point I was arguing. He said poor Lyon needed this 8-fer for the forum to rate him higher than Jadeja which is not right.

Please, spare me, if this poll was taken before the series, you don't think Jadeja would be winning it?

 

[Sunil1z]

Please, spare me, if this poll was taken before the series, you don't think Jadeja would be winning it?

No. Did you forget the result of recent poll in which I asked who was the best spinner since Murali/ Warne ?

Ashwin got 20 votes, Kumble also got 20 , Lyon 3 or 4 , Jadeja 1 iirc.

 

[subshakerz]

I can remember more match winning performance from Jadeja as a batsman overseas than bowler

Yes, and people forget that Lyon actually has a bunch of overseas matchwinning performances too that Jadeja doesn't.

 

[subshakerz]

No. Did you forget the result of recent poll in which I asked who was the best spinner since Murali/ Warne ?

Ashwin got 20 votes, Kumble also got 20 , Lyon 3 or 4 , Jadeja 1 iirc.

Come on, we are talking about a head to head, Kumble/Ashwin sucked up the Indian vote.

 

[Sunil1z]

Come on, we are talking about a head to head, Kumble/Ashwin sucked up the Indian vote.

So basically you are saying all those who vote for Jadeja above Lyon are Indian when there are Australian posters in this thread who rate Jadeja > Lyon .

 

[subshakerz]

So basically you are saying all those who vote for Jadeja above Lyon are Indian when there are Australian posters in this thread who rate Jadeja > Lyon .

Nope. But that tally isn't a fair reflection how a head to head would go, and we should just be honest about that.

 

[CodeOfWisden]

Jadeja by a country mile.
Even on bad days he doesn't become someone's bitch and knows how to control the run rate.

 

[CodeOfWisden]

Jadeja averages lower than Lyon in both India and Aus.

 

[Sunil1z]

Nope. But that tally isn't a fair reflection how a head to head would go, and we should just be honest about that.

Bowling average of Jadeja and Lyon in matches in which both have played (14 matches):
Jadeja:18
Lyon :31

If Lyon was that much superior he wouldn’t be outbowled so comprehensively .
Regarding how people vote , I won’t bother to comment . You can keep seething on why people Jadeja rate highly .

 

[subshakerz]

Bowling average of Jadeja and Lyon in matches in which both have played (14 matches):
Jadeja:18
Lyon :31

If Lyon was that much superior he wouldn’t be outbowled so comprehensively .
Regarding how people vote , I won’t bother to comment . You can keep seething on why people Jadeja rate highly .

I always wonder why posters find these head to head averages convincing

 

[subshakerz]

Jadeja by a country mile.
Even on bad days he doesn't become someone's bitch and knows how to control the run rate.

That's because away from SC he is not really trying to take wickets but just bowl neatly to help the other wickettakers. Lyon actually has the burden of being a wockettaking option wherever he goes.

 

[Burgey]

This series is pretty much proof that you don't have to be a top drawer spinner to take buckets of wickets in Indian conditions and end up with pretty figures, as Jadeja has done this last decade.

Take Jadeja outside India and give him a different non-SC home country, and with his current MO he would struggle to be selected as a bowler alone.

I think this post actually under sells Lyon’s efforts a bit if anything. Plenty of overseas spinners have gone the journey in India. The way he bowls there now cf when he first toured is noticeably different and better - he’s changed his MO in india to be more effective.

 

[Coronis]

I am not getting into who is the better bowler. But it is not "Poor Lyon" at all. I don't remember any other poll where a 31 averaging bowler leads a 24 averaging bowler by so much. So the poll results may be right or wrong but Lyon is not getting victimized or something here.

And Lyon also got rated ahead of Jadeja in the spinner rankings two years ago. So, the 8-fer is not the major reason though it could have influenced a couple of voters.

Its ok, I see polls where 50 averaging batsmen lead 55+ averaging batsmen all the time.

 

[Spark]

This series is pretty much proof that you don't have to be a top drawer spinner to take buckets of wickets in Indian conditions and end up with pretty figures, as Jadeja has done this last decade.

Take Jadeja outside India and give him a different non-SC home country, and with his current MO he would struggle to be selected as a bowler alone.

Haha this is ludicrously untrue. Warne and Murali both infamously struggled in India.

 

[subshakerz]

Haha this is ludicrously untrue. Warne and Murali both infamously struggled in India.

Yes in a different era against vastly better quality of players of spin.

Talking about the last decade when pitches in India have been very friendly for all spinners. In this series alone, two debuting spinners are averaging low 20s and have each gone through the Indian side. And there are plenty other examples in this time of decent to ordinary spinners ending up with stellar returns. Yet we are supposed to take Jadeja's record at face value as if he is some sort of genius.