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*Official* England in NZ 2023

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
This recent run of lost/drawn series has been annoying because NZ still are a good side
I don't think we are a good side at all. From 2013-21, we were a good side, a good XI. You could expect meaningful contributions at times from all members of the XI (unless playing Australia). Now, against good sides, it's Conway, Blundell, Mitchell and Kane, and the rest are filler.

We're losing series' because we are a very average side now, led without any real innovation or endeavour. And also very haplessly selected.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Teams for the next test

England will probably be unchanged but Lawrence or Root opening would still improve things, even though it's probably not the best for either personally. I would still be reluctant to fudge the batting order long-term and will hope that another actual opener puts their hand up from domestics for a run at the Ashes. Probably don't need to rest a fast bowler but I would trust them if they do. Stone prefereable over Potts away from home.

Duckett
Root
Pope
Brook
Lawrence
Stokes
Foakes
Robinson
Broad
Leach
Anderson

NZ's top three is fine, as are Blundell and Mitchell. I'll believe posters in these threads that Young is better suited to #4. The bowling attack shouldn't be four seamers - you need both conditions and the personnel to suit for it to be worth it, and NZ have neither with their injuries and with the next test not being day/night. So Sodhi comes back in along with Henry. Of the three droppable seamers from this test, Tickner seems to have the most about him compared to a past it Wagner or the other guy. Too wayward to be a long term Test prospect but put a couple of threatening spells together. Lastly, I think Bracewell exceeded expectations with the ball here but if you have a proper spinner in the side you can replace his bowling by just using Mitchell more, and bringing in Phillips can improve the batting and fielding.

Conway
Latham
Williamson
Young
Mitchell
Phillips
Blundell
Sodhi
Henry
Southee
Tickner
Howe they aren't dropping crawley, give it up, it won't happen, he scored a 20 odd quickly, that's a good Test for him.
 

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
See I don't get this line of thinking about Phillips. Guy is mentally a different prospect to some of the others floating around and that could serve us well. And how many red ball options do we have at the moment anyway? Seems daft to ignore a guy with talent and a fighting mindset because he doesn't immediately scream red ball cricket in his technique, when there aren't any other options banging the door down.
Very fair comment. I had thought the same of Pant, unorthodox and won't be able to buy a run in tough conditions but it's been proved otherwise. GP is very enterprising no doubt. I do feel if he would have been tried since like a year with all the batting experience around he'd have flourished. Couldn't have done any worse than some of the current players. I dearly want to be proved wrong in his case and want him to have a 10+ years test cricket career.
 

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
We also just got smoked around the park by guys told to just go smash it bro.

It's never a bad thing to have a guy in the top 6 or 7 with license to yeet it. We've had at least one guy for it ever since I've been watching (Cairns, Oram, McCullum, CdG and now Macewell. Astle and McMillan weren't known for blocking either). Very successful sides have had one or more of that sort of cricketer.

I don't think Phillips is a cure all either but he's a better batsman than Macewell. Unfortunately whoever actually runs this team is terrified of being remotely brave or accountable. Got a WTC trophy, job done, stop whinging seems to be the attitude judging by the Stead comments post-Bangers loss.

On that note, call me mad, but KW could do worse than whacking these English medium quicks back over their heads where they belong. The **** just blocks it these days, has for years. You're not Pujara ffs go watch your Brisbane and Perth 2015 knocks. Blundell and Mitchell don't have Kane or Conway's talent but in their recent good form they've refused to die in a hole against the English.

Gary Stead probably told him to dig in and fight hard like a good little kiwi battler.
True that about Kane. The balls he's getting out recently he used to punch them nonchalantly for fours. Confidence is a strange thing. When you're one of the very best there's way more expectations and handling that over number of years is a hard one. If Kane scored a fifty we'll still regard it as a failure but then Macewell scores a fifty even in like once in 10 innings we want him playing for the next one year. After all Kane is also human and the injuries and the patchy form he's had will be in the back of his mind every time he goes out to bat putting himself under pressure. Hope he rises above the pressure and plays with a bit of exuberance. He has nothing left to prove. No matter what he does from now on, he will stay a champion. Like one of the poster suggested it's not a bad thing to bat 4 or 5. He's our best bat and nothing wrong in hiding him a bit. Everyone wanes over the time, with experience also comes physical limitations, mental fatigue due to years competition, over analysis all take a toll.

It's said Kane is not one of those Baz types, he is quite analytical and looks to improve technique to combat challenges. He's never quite been carefree. I am waiting for a day when he goes carefree and **** all attitude. He needs to have a mindset like he was playing school cricket now with the experience but the experience is not serving him right, it's only made him more circumspect. Strange how experience works depending on your nature and past. It's between the ears in the end, he doesn't need technique he needs to be free of expectations at least in his mind.
 

Tom Flint

International Regular
I don't think we are a good side at all. From 2013-21, we were a good side, a good XI. You could expect meaningful contributions at times from all members of the XI (unless playing Australia). Now, against good sides, it's Conway, Blundell, Mitchell and Kane, and the rest are filler.

We're losing series' because we are a very average side now, led without any real innovation or endeavour. And also very haplessly selected.
Jamieson southee?
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Jamieson southee?
Sorry, missed Southee. Jamieson is too injury prone to be included, we can't rely on him being involved.

Hell, there's talk around of Matt Henry being some sort of white knight to walk back into this side, and he averages 41.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Sorry, missed Southee. Jamieson is too injury prone to be included, we can't rely on him being involved.

Hell, there's talk around of Matt Henry being some sort of white knight to walk back into this side, and he averages 41.
As poor as Henry is, he would have been a million times better than Kuggleijn (although Duffy also would've been to be fair) and perhaps given us some decent new ball bowling.
 

Moss

International Captain
I don't think we are a good side at all. From 2013-21, we were a good side, a good XI. You could expect meaningful contributions at times from all members of the XI (unless playing Australia). Now, against good sides, it's Conway, Blundell, Mitchell and Kane, and the rest are filler.

We're losing series' because we are a very average side now, led without any real innovation or endeavour. And also very haplessly selected.
True, and it isn't like England 2015-22 where red ball failings were at least compensated for by white ball performances. This slide has happened across all formats.
 

thundaboult

International Debutant
thankfully our white ball side is still giving some spectacular moments here and there between the usual failing in india aus stuff
 

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
Not sure what the rationale behind this, I thought they would have kept Duffy and released Kuggs. Maybe there is a plunkett shield game coming up for Otago and Canterbury. Makes sense to release Ish if you they are not going to play him.

Stead said Henry would replace Jacob Duffy in the squad while leg-spinner Ish Sodhi had also been released.

“I don’t think it’s unfair to say we are lacking a bit of that confidence at the moment, but I can assure you the faith is still with this group of guys,” he said.

“We believe these are our best cricketers. Won’t make wholesale or snappy changes when all of our top order struggled.

“We want to go out and throw some punches back at England and I thought through this (first) test we did that really, really well at times.”
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Not sure what the rationale behind this, I thought they would have kept Duffy and released Kuggs.
Should have released both and brought in both Henry and Dougeh.

I don't like releasing the only frontline spinner from the squad but if they know the pitch will be such that they won't play him, I guess he might as well play cricket elsewhere.
 

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