*Official* England in NZ 2023

[nzfan]

I mean NZ went like 30 years without winning a match.

But ignoring that, from 2006 to 2013 NZ only won series against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. NZ are a long way from their low points.

Of course we're not that bad anymore but in the recent years say since 2012 this must be the longest drought. Although we lost the series in England we competed in every year match.

 

[ataraxia]

This recent run of lost/drawn series has been annoying because NZ still are a good side, simply without the fortitude and results to show for it. Did well in India but lost the series. Lost to Bangladesh at home because. South Africa – shoulda won. Had an excellent chance at a proper showing in a proper series, then Bazball decided to manifest itself and oops we're evidently not worthy of 3 tests, back to 2 thank you. Dominated Pakistan in Pakistan, for a couple of draws. oh and this thing where England win again.

 

[Daniel CC]

New Zealand aren't a bad side.

The issue is Bazball is next generation cricket.

The IPhone 8 isn't a bad phone... but it ain't the 14.

 

[Shady Slim]

New Zealand aren't a bad side.

The issue is Bazball is next generation cricket.

The IPhone 8 isn't a bad phone... but it ain't the 14.

this guy is posting like someone halfassedly trying to recreate chris hinton from memory lol

 

[Howe_zat]

Teams for the next test

England will probably be unchanged but Lawrence or Root opening would still improve things, even though it's probably not the best for either personally. I would still be reluctant to fudge the batting order long-term and will hope that another actual opener puts their hand up from domestics for a run at the Ashes. Probably don't need to rest a fast bowler but I would trust them if they do. Stone prefereable over Potts away from home.

Duckett
Root
Pope
Brook
Lawrence
Stokes
Foakes
Robinson
Broad
Leach
Anderson

NZ's top three is fine, as are Blundell and Mitchell. I'll believe posters in these threads that Young is better suited to #4. The bowling attack shouldn't be four seamers - you need both conditions and the personnel to suit for it to be worth it, and NZ have neither with their injuries and with the next test not being day/night. So Sodhi comes back in along with Henry. Of the three droppable seamers from this test, Tickner seems to have the most about him compared to a past it Wagner or the other guy. Too wayward to be a long term Test prospect but put a couple of threatening spells together. Lastly, I think Bracewell exceeded expectations with the ball here but if you have a proper spinner in the side you can replace his bowling by just using Mitchell more, and bringing in Phillips can improve the batting and fielding.

Conway
Latham
Williamson
Young
Mitchell
Phillips
Blundell
Sodhi
Henry
Southee
Tickner

 

[Moss]

I do agree there should be room for Sodhi, while he could get tonked he’ll also be real useful against a batting lineup that hits out no matter what. Either that or bring in someone like Shipley. Bit of a misfortune that Wagner is playing *this* opposition at this stage of his career, but it’s reminding me of Taylor going on tour to India in 2021 - should really be spared the embarrassment.

The batting is underachieving. Even leaving aside the Nicholls problem the top 6 does not perform well enough as a unit when confronted with a challenging attack (thinking of the ODI series against Australia as well where the hard length was enough to keep them quiet).

 

[Moss]

Teams for the next test

England will probably be unchanged but Lawrence or Root opening would probably improve things, even though it's probably not the best for either personally. I would still be reluctant to fudge the batting order long-term and will hope that another actual opener puts their hand up from domestics for a run at the Ashes. Probably don't need to rest a fast bowler but I would trust them if they do. Stone prefereable over Potts away from home.

Duckett
Root
Pope
Brook
Lawrence
Stokes
Foakes
Robinson
Broad
Leach
Anderson

Need Root in the middle order, there will be days when the new ball does damage and not allowing Brook and Stokes to play with as much freedom.

 

[Daniel CC]

Root opening would not be a good idea

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Shipley appeals as the best option if they want a big strong guy to run into the wind. Tickner could be quite a handful downwind if there is some control there.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Root opening would not be a good idea

Open the batting with Broad.
#Bazthoughts

 

[Daniel CC]

Open the batting with Broad.
#Bazthoughts

#MorningHawk

 

[Howe_zat]

In the 2020s Anderson has a bowling average of 14 away from home.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Teams for the next test

England will probably be unchanged but Lawrence or Root opening would probably improve things, even though it's probably not the best for either personally. I would still be reluctant to fudge the batting order long-term and will hope that another actual opener puts their hand up from domestics for a run at the Ashes. Probably don't need to rest a fast bowler but I would trust them if they do. Stone prefereable over Potts away from home.

Duckett
Root
Pope
Brook
Lawrence
Stokes
Foakes
Robinson
Broad
Leach
Anderson

NZ's top three is fine, as are Blundell and Mitchell. I'll believe posters in these threads that Young is better suited to #4. The bowling attack shouldn't be four seamers - you need both conditions and the personnel to suit for it to be worth it, and NZ have neither with their injuries and with the next test not being day/night. So Sodhi comes back in along with Henry. Of the three droppable seamers from this test, Tickner seems to have the most about him compared to a past it Wagner or the other guy. Too wayward to be a long term Test prospect but put a couple of threatening spells together. Lastly, I think Bracewell exceeded expectations with the ball here but if you have a proper spinner in the side you can replace his bowling by just using Mitchell more, and bringing in Phillips can improve the batting and fielding.

Conway
Latham
Williamson
Young
Mitchell
Phillips
Blundell
Sodhi
Henry
Southee
Tickner

That’s a much improved NZ side.

 

[NZTailender]

This recent run of lost/drawn series has been annoying because NZ still are a good side, simply without the fortitude and results to show for it. Did well in India but lost the series. Lost to Bangladesh at home because. South Africa – shoulda won. Had an excellent chance at a proper showing in a proper series, then Bazball decided to manifest itself and oops we're evidently not worthy of 3 tests, back to 2 thank you. Dominated Pakistan in Pakistan, for a couple of draws. oh and this thing where England win again.

I think we've coasted for a bit. There was a stretch there where the side seemed quite clinical. Had plans and players performed their roles, things were executed well in a calm sort of way. But like most things, you just can't coast forever and players ageing, losing form and teams getting used to our tactics and stuff has caught up to us. There's still some kind of mental block with our players (especially vs Aus in tests). Blundell's innings in the first dig was like a throwback to when we actually fought things out. Capitulations seem more commonplace again these days. I figure we'll get back there but it might take time.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I think we've coated for a bit. There was a stretch there where the side seemed quite clinical. Had plans and players performed their roles, things were executed well in a calm sort of way. But like most things, you just can't coast forever and players ageing, losing form and teams getting used to our tactics and stuff has caught up to us. There's still some kind of mental block with our players (especially vs Aus in tests). Blundell's innings in the first dig was like a throwback to when we actually fought things out. Capitulations seem more commonplace again these days. I figure we'll get back there but it might take time.

Blundell has played a lot of those types of innings in the last 12 months

 

[nzfan]

That’s a much improved NZ side.

I'm not sold on Phillips in red ball cricket. I'd love to be proved wrong and want to be proved wrong desperately as I like the lad. Unless he plays like Brook don't think he's going to be a long term prospect in red ball cricket. I know the lads I'm going to name are majorly from Wellington and maybe a bit biased having watched them lots but Sears, Fisher, Ravindra and Nathan Smith are players that are suited for this format. They should be drafted earlier than later. At whose cost I don't know but they should be on every squad list in future. Don't worry about their domestic numbers, they have what it takes.

Was curious and looked at what stage did the current players get a break for black caps. Different times I know but Nicholls was barely averaging 32 with couple of first class hundreds, Latham had scored no more than 2 first class hundreds averaging mid 30s, Kane mid 40s with couple of hundreds, Southee barely out of under 19s, Boult reasonable but not out of the world first class stats... they had a good eye for talent those days and backed the right horses. Now we've come to pick players aged 30 or over consistently, neither they come across as world beaters nor have the stats to back their spots. It's like fine, you've played 8 years or over of first class cricket so we'll reward you with a season. Love it that they still keep putting in the hard yards but if there are better players than them then tough luck.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

In the 2020s Anderson has a bowling average of 14 away from home.

At 40 he'd share the new ball for the World XI with Patty C. I reckon my current World XI would be:

Conway
Khawaja
Babar
Smith
Brook (x factor wild card)
Blundell
Jadeja
Ashwin
Jansen
Cummins
Anderson

 

[nzfan]

For the next test please give Young a go and give Nicholls a break. Nicholls hasn't scored a hundred since like a year. In the same time Young has 3.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I'm not sold on Phillips in red ball cricket.

1st class average of 40, and can do the Brook/Head/Iyer role at 5. Scored a 50 at the SCG in his one test. Also brings something different - tough, quirky and extremely innovative. I think Phillips would make a great captain in 2-3 years when Southee retires.

I also want to see Shipley play and the word is that Kohli's sister really rates him, so he must be good.

 

[Howe_zat]

At 40 he'd share the new ball for the World XI with Patty C. I reckon my current World XI would be:

Conway
Khawaja
Babar
Smith
Brook (x factor wild card)
Blundell
Jadeja
Ashwin
Jansen
Cummins
Anderson

Fans would be yelling at you on twitter for leaving out Rohit Sharma and Labuschagne no doubt. Stokes (c) over Ashwin is probably a better balance, except in turning conditions, so have him in the squad.