Is AB de Villiers an ATG test batsman?

[shortpitched713]

**** it, you guys are right, and have actually convinced me. I'd put in Garner over Philander, given the arguments mentioned. Thought of some other bowlers as well like Imran and Pollock are probably better than him too (Still think he's better than Lillee, so put that in your pipes and smoke it Church of Orthodox Concensus CW Cricket Opinions!) My revised list of ATG seamers from modern (70-) era:

Richard Hadlee
Joel Garner
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose
Allan Donald
Glenn Mcgrath
Dale Steyn

The whole point of this freaking tangent is that ATG is an exclusive as **** category, and a club in which AdV doesn't belong.

On second though, removing Garner. Don't think he's on quite the same level as the rest on this list ( absolute ATG modern seamers ), as he didn't do it for quite long enough for mine, and only had 58 Tests. Borderline, yes as the Don only had 52, but there were less Tests played in those earlier eras.

Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose
Allan Donald
Glenn Mcgrath
Dale Steyn

So there are only 23 modern era ATGs that are currently inactive:

Greg Chappell
Sunil Gavaskar
Viv Richards
Javed Miandad
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Jacques Kallis
Kumar Sangakkara
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose
Allan Donald
Glenn Mcgrath
Dale Steyn
Matthew Hayden
Virender Sehwag
Graeme Smith
Shane Warne
Muttiah Muralitharan
Adam Gilchrist
Imran Khan
Ian Botham
Shaun Pollock

 

[subshakerz]

On second though, removing Garner. Don't think he's on quite the same level as the rest on this list ( absolute ATG modern seamers ), as he didn't do it for quite long enough for mine, and only had 58 Tests. Borderline, yes as the Don only had 52, but there were less Tests played in those earlier eras.

Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose
Allan Donald
Glenn Mcgrath
Dale Steyn

So there are only 23 modern era ATGs that are currently inactive:

Greg Chappell
Sunil Gavaskar
Viv Richards
Javed Miandad
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Jacques Kallis
Kumar Sangakkara
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose
Allan Donald
Glenn Mcgrath
Dale Steyn
Matthew Hayden
Virender Sehwag
Graeme Smith
Shane Warne
Muttiah Muralitharan
Adam Gilchrist
Imran Khan
Ian Botham
Shaun Pollock

Missing:
Lillee
Keith Miller
Hutton
Hobbs
Waugh
Border
Wasim
Trueman
Ponting

And likely a few others.

 

[Coronis]

Missing:
Lillee
Keith Miller
Hutton
Hobbs
Waugh
Border
Wasim
Trueman
Ponting

And likely a few others.

Wouldn’t call Hobbs and Hutton modern era

 

[trundler]

Sanga isn't better than Dravid.

 

[Coronis]

Sanga isn't better than Dravid.

Or is he?

 

[ZK$]

Sanga isn't better than Dravid.

Dravid was better against spin. Sangakkara was better against pace.

 

[trundler]

What I mean is it's the Border/Miandad situation again. They're about as good as each other and having one a ATG but not the other doesn't make sense.

 

[shortpitched713]

Missing:
Lillee
Keith Miller
Hutton
Hobbs
Waugh
Border
Wasim
Trueman
Ponting

And likely a few others.

The one time I don't put ( 70- ) defining modern Era, like some sort of OCD ticking weirdo, you hit me with this post.

But of the ones that qualify, I'll stick with Lillee, Waugh, Border, Wasim, and Ponting not being at quite as high of a level. Especially confident of Waugh, Wasim and Ponting, having seen them during my time. Wasim too inconsistent, even in terms of effort, whatever we say about the talent. With Waugh and Ponting, the quality of their teams', especially in getting off to flying starts batting, and bowling support means I think they had an easier time of it than almost any other player on this list. They were great winners still, but I'm not going to just count it in their favor on an ATG list in which I'm looking at pure cricketing performance with bat/ball, etc.

 

[Coronis]

On second though, removing Garner. Don't think he's on quite the same level as the rest on this list ( absolute ATG modern seamers ), as he didn't do it for quite long enough for mine, and only had 58 Tests. Borderline, yes as the Don only had 52, but there were less Tests played in those earlier eras.

Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose
Allan Donald
Glenn Mcgrath
Dale Steyn

So there are only 23 modern era ATGs that are currently inactive:

Greg Chappell
Sunil Gavaskar
Viv Richards
Javed Miandad
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Jacques Kallis
Kumar Sangakkara
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose
Allan Donald
Glenn Mcgrath
Dale Steyn
Matthew Hayden
Virender Sehwag
Graeme Smith
Shane Warne
Muttiah Muralitharan
Adam Gilchrist
Imran Khan
Ian Botham
Shaun Pollock

The one time I don't put ( 70- ) defining modern Era, like some sort of OCD ticking weirdo, you hit me with this post.

But of the ones that qualify, I'll stick with Lillee, Waugh, Border, Wasim, and Ponting not being at quite as high of a level. Especially confident of Waugh, Wasim and Ponting, having seen them during my time. Wasim too inconsistent, even in terms of effort, whatever we say about the talent. With Waugh and Ponting, the quality of their teams', especially in getting off to flying starts batting, and bowling support means I think they had an easier time of it than almost any other player on this list. They were great winners still, but I'm not going to just count it in their favor on an ATG list in which I'm looking at pure cricketing performance with bat/ball, etc.

Never thought I’d see the day when Hayden and Sehwag were considered ATG batsmen but Border, Waugh and Ponting weren’t.

 

[CricAddict]

The one time I don't put ( 70- ) defining modern Era, like some sort of OCD ticking weirdo, you hit me with this post.

But of the ones that qualify, I'll stick with Lillee, Waugh, Border, Wasim, and Ponting not being at quite as high of a level. Especially confident of Waugh, Wasim and Ponting, having seen them during my time. Wasim too inconsistent, even in terms of effort, whatever we say about the talent. With Waugh and Ponting, the quality of their teams', especially in getting off to flying starts batting, and bowling support means I think they had an easier time of it than almost any other player on this list. They were great winners still, but I'm not going to just count it in their favor on an ATG list in which I'm looking at pure cricketing performance with bat/ball, etc.

What is this list? If it is a list of ATGs and you don't have Wasim in there, that is absolutely rubbish. He is among the top 10 best pacers ever, arguably top 5.

 

[shortpitched713]

Never thought I’d see the day when Hayden and Sehwag were considered ATG batsmen but Border, Waugh and Ponting weren’t.

Yup, I think they definitely deserve it more for the roles they play on their team, as the great 21st century openers.

 

[shortpitched713]

What is this list? If it is a list of ATGs and you don't have Wasim in there, that is absolutely rubbish. He is among the top 10 best pacers ever, arguably top 5.

Loved watching him, and he's the player that defined my youth as a Pakistan cricket fan.

For highlights, he's one of the best, no doubt. But he phoned it in often enough for me to take him off this list, purely as a Test bowler. When you throw in ODIs, then he's arguably the best all format player ever, but then again, this list has nothing to do with that.