Curtly Ambrose vs Dale Steyn

[subshakerz]

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Lillie actually did well in Windies during Packer era.

Not quite ATG standards but not a flop.

 

[shortpitched713]

I still can't choose between these two. Very different styles, but very, very similar results. Steyn gets a small advantage on the strike rate probably, but that depends on how much you value that. Ambrose probably didn't need to strike as quickly based on being on a somewhat better overall attack.

I'll look at the results of this poll, and it should determine which of the two nations of South Africa or West Indies, out of non Big 3 nations are more villianously underrated by the evil CW cabal. My guess would be the South African.

Edit: I was right, and have voted Dale Steyn accordingly. I think in the future he should be considered in the top, top tier with McGrath, Marshall, Ambrose, Hadlee if he isn't already.

 

[Arachnodouche]

I'm sure this has been discussed plenty but what's the forum's general view of Steyn's home pitch advantage, seeing how SA pitches never really flattened out relative to other parts of the world in the concerned time period?

 

[shortpitched713]

I'm sure this has been discussed plenty but what's the forum's general view of Steyn's home pitch advantage, seeing how SA pitches never really flattened out relative to other parts of the world in the concerned time period?

Shouldn't mean much at all, given he was the go to wicket taker for SA away from home.

 

[subshakerz]

I'm sure this has been discussed plenty but what's the forum's general view of Steyn's home pitch advantage, seeing how SA pitches never really flattened out relative to other parts of the world in the concerned time period?

They mostly ignore it.

 

[shortpitched713]

I'm sure this has been discussed plenty but what's the forum's general view of Steyn's home pitch advantage, seeing how SA pitches never really flattened out relative to other parts of the world in the concerned time period?

Kallis and G Smith must be gods then. Oh wait, people underrate them too, in spite of this logic. Maybe the pitches are flat when SA's bastmen are up, but then become not flat when the bowlers have a turn. Very interesting... ?

 

[ankitj]

Kallis and G Smith must be gods then. Oh wait, people underrate them too, in spite of this logic. Maybe the pitches are flat when SA's bastmen are up, but then become not flat when the bowlers have a turn. Very interesting... ?

You already cracked the code for how players are rated based on the team they played for.

 

[Prince EWS]

Kallis and G Smith must be gods then.

Yes.

I'm very consistent with my pitch-based pro-Smith, pro-Kallis, anti-Steyn agenda.

 

[subshakerz]

Yes.

I'm very consistent with my pitch-based pro-Smith, pro-Kallis, anti-Steyn agenda.

Not a fan of Kallis but his home record is the most impressive part of his career.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Kallis and G Smith must be gods then. Oh wait, people underrate them too, in spite of this logic. Maybe the pitches are flat when SA's bastmen are up, but then become not flat when the bowlers have a turn. Very interesting... ?

G Smith doesn't have a good home record anyway. Kallis has big home numbers but it's all based on bashing substandard pace attacks like India and WI (when they either had one of Ambrose/ Walsh missing or both gone) and he only averaged 33 against Australia.

This is how you nitpick and hate efficiently.

 

[subshakerz]

G Smith doesn't have a good home record anyway. Kallis has big home numbers but it's all based on bashing substandard pace attacks like India and WI (when they either had one of Ambrose/ Walsh missing or both gone) and he only averaged 33 against Australia.

This is how you nitpick and hate efficiently.

Nope, Kallis scored well against the Ambrose and Walsh in 98 at home.

His home numbers are a very good stat but CW isn't consistent for giving credit to home players, rather they hype up Sehwag and Jadeja based on home numbers in their conditions of choice, ignore Steyn's home advantage but knock Anderson for being a home bully, treat Labu' s record as inflated based on his home runs yet give Smith a pass for them, then bash Imran and Waqar for their Pakistan records pointing out the difference with away average.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Nope, Kallis scored well against the Ambrose and Walsh in 98 at home.

I have covered this very effectively in my previous post :

WI (when they either had one of Ambrose/ Walsh missing or both gone)

Kallis averaged 35 in the first 3 tests of that series when both Ambrose and Walsh played. He filled his boots in the last 2 when one of those two weren't playing. See? I have provided solid proof that his home record is overrated.

 

[subshakerz]

I have covered this very effectively in my previous post :



Kallis averaged 35 in the first 3 tests of that series when both Ambrose and Walsh played. He filled his boots in the last 2 when one of those two weren't playing. See? I have provided solid proof that his home record is overrated.

This is great. Further proof that Kallis was what I thought he was.

 

[Coronis]

yet give Smith a pass for them,

Thats because his away numbers are better than 90% of the others career numbers

 

[CricAddict]

Nope, Kallis scored well against the Ambrose and Walsh in 98 at home.

His home numbers are a very good stat but CW isn't consistent for giving credit to home players, rather they hype up Sehwag and Jadeja based on home numbers in their conditions of choice, ignore Steyn's home advantage but knock Anderson for being a home bully, treat Labu' s record as inflated based on his home runs yet give Smith a pass for them, then bash Imran and Waqar for their Pakistan records pointing out the difference with away average.

Each of the above are being done by sets of people on CW, it is not being done by all for all of the above. For example, Few others and I rate all of Jadeja, Sehwag, Anderson, Labu, Smith, Imran and Waqar who are mentioned above but there are people who do not rate most of them.

 

[subshakerz]

Thats because his away numbers are better than 90% of the others career numbers

Yes but his home numbers are still inflated as with Labu'.

 

[subshakerz]

Each of the above are being done by sets of people on CW, it is not being done by all for all of the above. For example, Few others and I rate all of Jadeja, Sehwag, Anderson, Labu, Smith, Imran and Waqar who are mentioned above but there are people who do not rate most of them.

Yes but you would agree we lack broad consensus on how home numbers should be treated compared to some other issues.

 

[ankitj]

If everyone sucked against "good players", are there any good players?

 

[CricAddict]

Yes but you would agree we lack broad consensus on how home numbers should be treated compared to some other issues.

Yes, agreed. It is somewhat similar to our treatment of ATG level too. Everyone have their own definition/count of ATGs and similarly everyone has their own weightage for home/away treatment.

 

[subshakerz]

If everyone sucked against "good players", are there any good players?

Not everyone. Waugh didn't but he doesn't get the time of day on this board.