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Kohli’s India vs Imran’s Pakistan

Which was the better test team?

  • Total voters
    21
Sunil1z

Sunil1z

International Regular
subshakerz said:
I am sure if Kohli was captain rather than Dhoni with an aging team in England and Australia in 2011, he would have still managed a win here or there rather than two straight 4-0 whitewashes abroad. Dhoni had a good spell from 2009 to 2011 but was far too defensive compared to Kohli.
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Dhoni wasn’t that interested in Test Cricket . So it didn’t bother him much .
In Asia ODI and T20 are the most important formats . So a captain is mostly judged on that.

Tendulkar , Kapil and Imran would be remembered for their WC win by most of the fans . Only a small percentage of their fans care about their Test exploits.
 
G

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
subshakerz said:
I see it as a problem in both test and limited overs cricket.
In limited overs, Champions Trophy final, WC2019 semi and 2021 WT20 knockout game.
In tests, I would point to WTC Final, 4th test in England 2018, 2nd test in NZ 2020 and 3rd test in SA 2022 as times in his captaincy when the team bottled under pressure with a match in balance and series on the line. That's enough to be a trend IMO.
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I agree with the examples you have given. But there are also examples where India under him performed well in crucial matches(tho none as crucial as WTC final). But if you look at the context at some of the matches you mentioned, India’s defeats(like SA 2022 third test) can’t be purely blamed on Kohli’s excessive intensity.
 
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Sunil1z

Sunil1z

International Regular
Coronis said:
If Warne was captain Australia would have won at least 20 in a row.
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Max 15
His 16th would have been against India ( Mumbai 2001)
He would have overbowled himself because no Steve Waugh to take him off .
Resulting in Indian victory or Draw.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Godard said:
I agree with the examples you have given. But there are also examples where India under him performed well in crucial matches(tho none as crucial as WTC final). But if you look at the context at some of the matches you mentioned, India’s defeats(like SA 2022 third test) can’t be purely blamed on Kohli’s excessive intensity.
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Kohli's intensity is my own interpretation. At the end of the day, the team buckled in pressure situations which cost India three LO ICC trophies and four historic series away victories under a certain captain, which is quite a sample size, which to me is a fair enough reason to call Kohli a good but not great captain.

If his team had won at least one limited overs trophy and 2-3 of those series, I wouldn't hesitate to call him Asia's greatest captain.
 
G

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
subshakerz said:
Kohli's intensity is my own interpretation. At the end of the day, the team buckled in pressure situations which cost India three LO ICC trophies and four historic series away victories under a certain captain, which is quite a sample size, which to me is a fair enough reason to call Kohli a good but not great captain.

If his team had won at least one limited overs trophy and 2-3 of those series, I wouldn't hesitate to call him Asia's greatest captain.
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I’ve never rated Kohli as a very good LO captain. However on four of these series, atleast in one situation(SA 2018), their opposition was simply too strong, and Eng 2022 India was leading under Kohli(for the final test, Rohit and KL were missing), and SA 2022 India had the momentum but a pretty bad captain in the second test, and were missing Rohit and Jadeja. They should have won the third test though. WTC final was a farce.
 
G

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
Their is enough context in a lot of those matches in the respective series, that can help one logically come to the conclusion that it wasn’t Kohli’s fault majorly.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Godard said:
I’ve never rated Kohli as a very good LO captain. However on four of these series, atleast in one situation(SA 2018), their opposition was simply too strong, and Eng 2022 India was leading under Kohli(for the final test, Rohit and KL were missing), and SA 2022 India had the momentum but a pretty bad captain in the second test, and were missing Rohit and Jadeja. They should have won the third test though. WTC final was a farce.
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Southhampton 2018 - India get a small lead, then Ashwin goes missing on the 4th day and India collapse chasing a gettable target. Series lost.

Wellington 2020 - India collapse in the second innings after a par first innings performance. Series lost.

WTC Final 2021 - India needed to just bat a couple sessions on the last day to secure a draw and share the title. Title lost.

Newlands 2022 - India are on the way to set a serious fourth innings target but middle lower order collapse and then the bowling attack fails to show. Series lost.
 
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G

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
subshakerz said:
Southhampton 2018 - India get a small lead, then Ashwin goes missing on the 4th day and India collapse chasing a gettable target. Series lost.

Wellington 2020 - India collapse in the second innings after a par first innings performances. Series lost.

WTC Final 2021 - India needed to just bat a couple sessions on the last day to secure a draw and share the title. Series lost.

Newlands 2022 - India are on the way to set a serious fourth innings target but collapse and then the bowling attacks fails to show. Series lost.
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Wellington 2020, how is scoring 165 and conceding a 180 run lead a par first innings performance.
WTC final was a farce since NZ had just played a series there. Plus it is more logical to blame Bumrah for going wicketless both innings, and Pant could have been more mature. Kohli also could have batted better.
2022 SA last test, India were missing both Rohit and Jadeja, but the whole Elgar incident was an example of Kohli’s intensity backfiring. India did lose all these matches, but nothing you have listed links these losses directly and majorly to Kohli’s intensity backfiring.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Godard said:
Wellington 2020, how is scoring 165 and conceding a 180 run lead a par first innings performance.
WTC final was a farce since NZ had just played a series there. Plus it is more logical to blame Bumrah for going wicketless both innings, and Pant could have been more mature. Kohli also could have batted better.
2022 SA last test, India were missing both Rohit and Jadeja, but the whole Elgar incident was an example of Kohli’s intensity backfiring. India did lose all these matches, but nothing you have listed links these losses directly and majorly to Kohli’s intensity backfiring.
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Sorry Christchurch.

Can we agree that Kohli's side had a tendency to wilt at these key moments.
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
Godard said:
Wellington 2020, how is scoring 165 and conceding a 180 run lead a par first innings performance.
WTC final was a farce since NZ had just played a series there. Plus it is more logical to blame Bumrah for going wicketless both innings, and Pant could have been more mature. Kohli also could have batted better.
2022 SA last test, India were missing both Rohit and Jadeja, but the whole Elgar incident was an example of Kohli’s intensity backfiring. India did lose all these matches, but nothing you have listed links these losses directly and majorly to Kohli’s intensity backfiring.
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Well gosh darn it. It will be a farce when we win too.
 
Daemon

Daemon

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Wouldn’t call it a farce but NZ did have an advantage coming into the game. They’re better in those conditions and had a couple of Tests there to warm up. If it was in the SC or even Australia the shoe would likely be on the other foot.

That said it’s pretty much India’s fault for sucking in England for ages. We’re embarrassing when the ball swings.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Daemon said:
Wouldn’t call it a farce but NZ did have an advantage coming into the game. They’re better in those conditions and had a couple of Tests there to warm up. If it was in the SC or even Australia the shoe would likely be on the other foot.

That said it’s pretty much India’s fault for sucking in England for ages. We’re embarrassing when the ball swings.
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I think it was silly that India did not try to play some series before the WTC in England. I am pretty sure they could have worked out deals with some counties and had SL or some other board who need the money over to play a couple of tests.
 
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