Kohli’s India vs Imran’s Pakistan

[subshakerz]

Not just those interviews though. The Boria interviews and literally every other content online with the Indian team tells you pretty obviously he was the biggest reason.


Saltshakerz posting crap about cricket he did not watch nor understand as usual.

Sure believe that if you like. I tend to give credit to the player who actually leads the team in the field. Your coach can be a 3D chess mastermind but it means nothing if the captain isn't leading the team well. At the very least, give Rahane partial credit if you want to be honest.

 

[honestbharani]

I actually sincerely believe the complete meltdown India had after the Elgar lbw drs doesn't happen under basically any other captain. Am I pulling that out of my backside @Daemon ? Yes. But deal with it. Kohli losing the plot there seemed to affect the bowlers too and they bowled 5 overs of rubbish immediately after that and pissed the game away.

I agree with this but i also don't think we win the 2021 Lord's test under any other captain. ?‍

 

[honestbharani]

Sure believe that if you like. I tend to give credit to the player who actually leads the team in the field. Your coach can be a 3D chess mastermind but it means nothing if the captain isn't leading the team well. At the very least, give Rahane partial credit if you want to be honest.

I tend to understand cricket by watching it. And i also tend to think the players involved would know more about what made the difference than an idiot who doesn't actually watch the cricket and only posts to suit his hatred filled agendas.

 

[Xix2565]

I don't credit only the change in captaincy, I just say that it was the biggest factor in the sudden turn around and you treat it like a non-factor. Please pretend that all other factors equal, Root would be winning 9/10 tests in a row.


You are the one bending backwards to prove that all results would be the same even if a lemon was in charge.

Captaincy is important is getting the most out of a team and to deny that is to ignore the dynamics of the sport.

It's not really that influential. Would you be praising Stokes if NZ didn't have crucial injuries and they edged the series 2-1 over England? Where apart from that factor all the performances and intent shown was the same? Like sorry, but this is just brainless posting from you where you want to make what is less influential as this big life changing moment that completely turned a somewhat close to the top team that had a bad run of injuries and opposition into a somewhat close to the top team that hasn't had a bad run of injuries and opposition.

 

[subshakerz]

It's not really that influential. Would you be praising Stokes if NZ didn't have crucial injuries and they edged the series 2-1 over England? Where apart from that factor all the performances and intent shown was the same? Like sorry, but this is just brainless posting from you where you want to make what is less influential as this big life changing moment that completely turned a somewhat close to the top team that had a bad run of injuries and opposition into a somewhat close to the top team that hasn't had a bad run of injuries and opposition.

Yeah it's just my own unique take no fan or pundit shares it all

 

[subshakerz]

I tend to understand cricket by watching it. And i also tend to think the players involved would know more about what made the difference than an idiot who doesn't actually watch the cricket and only posts to suit his hatred filled agendas.

Yeah I'm the hater here. Me and my anti-India PakPassion agenda.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah I'm the hater here. Me and my anti-India PakPassion agenda.

Yes

 

[Xix2565]

Yeah it's just my own unique take no fan or pundit shares it all

A lot of people believe in dumb conspiracies, doesn't make them any less dumb for doing so.

 

[Godard]

Kohli's win percentage is why he is a good captain. He introduced an intensity and ruthlessness that let India crush low and medium opposition with a ferocity not seen in India before. He also introduced the 5 man bowling attack and high fitness standards and deserves credit for that.

But that same team under him also fell short at key moments against the stronger opposition and tougher conditions, as well as ICC knockout events. His own high pressure play backfired.

That doesn't make him a bad captain, but maybe not a great one.

Since we are talking about test cricket, the only knockout event Kohli lost as captain was the WTC final(in which the situation heavily favoured NZ as well). If you are referring to tough conditions as in SA 2022 and Eng 2022, centurymaker has provided context for that. Sure there are situations where Kohli’s pressure could have backfired, but mostly as evidenced by his record as captain it didn’t, and it is very convenient to say all tests India lost under Kohli was due to his poor captaincy. India also won crucial games overseas under Kohli, against SL in SL 2015 despite being 1 down( And this SL may not have been peak SL, but they had Herath, Mathews, Chandimal, Sanga(although in the last stage of his career), and at home, Border Gavaskar 2016-17 despite being 1 down. And Eng 2022(for 80% of the time), Aus 2018, the team did pretty well in tough conditions due to his intensity.

 

[Sunil1z]

Rahane was the captain in the decider Test of BG Trophy 2016-17 which we won comfortably.

Kohli had his good moments as well as bad moments. If he will get credit , then he will also face some criticism.
I mean many people rightly criticise Ponting’s captaincy as well in Tests despite him having such a stellar record . Why do certain people feel Kohli won’t be criticised ?

 

[Godard]

Rahane was the captain in the decider Test of BG Trophy 2016-17 which we won comfortably.

Kohli had his good moments as well as bad moments. If he will get credit , then he will also face some criticism.
I mean many people rightly criticise Ponting’s captaincy as well in Tests despite him having such a stellar record . Why do certain people feel Kohli won’t be criticised ?

But the good moments are clearly more than the bad right? Also Kohli was captain in the test after which India were 1-0 down, and after that victory India gained lot of confidence, since the first match was kind of a crazy loss.

 

[Godard]

Rahane was the captain in the decider Test of BG Trophy 2016-17 which we won comfortably.

Kohli had his good moments as well as bad moments. If he will get credit , then he will also face some criticism.
I mean many people rightly criticise Ponting’s captaincy as well in Tests despite him having such a stellar record . Why do certain people feel Kohli won’t be criticised ?

Ponting’s team was vastly superior to Kohli’s for the majority of the time.

 

[Godard]

Rahane was the captain in the decider Test of BG Trophy 2016-17 which we won comfortably.

Kohli had his good moments as well as bad moments. If he will get credit , then he will also face some criticism.
I mean many people rightly criticise Ponting’s captaincy as well in Tests despite him having such a stellar record . Why do certain people feel Kohli won’t be criticised ?

And please, if Rahane was captain temporarily at any point of time for a small duration, during Kohli’s tenure and playing in a setup built by Kohli and Shastri, doesn’t mean he deserves complete or even majority of the credit.

 

[Sunil1z]

If you want me to give credit to Kohli , then I will say this:
Guy is a total Team person. Even when he was struggling for runs , he never asked for flat wickets . Always puts the interest of Team over his batting average . I really feel guy deserves a batting average of 50 . So for the sake of his personal record and Team interest, he should go and play few Ranji matches and improve his game vs spin. We missed Kohli the batsman in SA .

 

[Godard]

If you want me to give credit to Kohli , then I will say this:
Guy is a total Team person. Even when he was struggling for runs , he never asked for flat wickets . Always puts the interest of Team over his batting average . I really feel guy deserves a batting average of 50 . So for the sake of his personal record and Team interest, he should go and play few Ranji matches and improve his game vs spin. We missed Kohli the batsman in SA .

Agreed.

 

[subshakerz]

Since we are talking about test cricket, the only knockout event Kohli lost as captain was the WTC final(in which the situation heavily favoured NZ as well). If you are referring to tough conditions as in SA 2022 and Eng 2022, centurymaker has provided context for that. Sure there are situations where Kohli’s pressure could have backfired, but mostly as evidenced by his record as captain it didn’t, and it is very convenient to say all tests India lost under Kohli was due to his poor captaincy. India also won crucial games overseas under Kohli, against SL in SL 2015 despite being 1 down( And this SL may not have been peak SL, but they had Herath, Mathews, Chandimal, Sanga(although in the last stage of his career), and at home, Border Gavaskar 2016-17 despite being 1 down. And Eng 2022(for 80% of the time), Aus 2018, the team did pretty well in tough conditions due to his intensity.

I see it as a problem in both test and limited overs cricket.
In limited overs, Champions Trophy final, WC2019 semi and 2021 WT20 knockout game.
In tests, I would point to WTC Final, 4th test in England 2018, 2nd test in NZ 2020 and 3rd test in SA 2022 as times in his captaincy when the team bottled under pressure with a match in balance and series on the line. That's enough to be a trend IMO.

 

[subshakerz]

Rahane was the captain in the decider Test of BG Trophy 2016-17 which we won comfortably.

Kohli had his good moments as well as bad moments. If he will get credit , then he will also face some criticism.
I mean many people rightly criticise Ponting’s captaincy as well in Tests despite him having such a stellar record . Why do certain people feel Kohli won’t be criticised ?

I find it strange that I am attacked when I say that Kohli is a good captain, notably better than Dhoni in tests. It is just that his captaincy also had some significant minuses too.

 

[Sunil1z]

I find it strange that I am attacked when I say that Kohli is a good captain, notably better than Dhoni in tests. It is just that his captaincy also had some significant minuses too.

Kohli is the most famous Indian cricketer since Tendulkar. So you should always be prepared to be attacked by his fan base.

Cricket web is very moderate . On Twitter/ Facebook , if you criticise Kohli , you will have to deal with 10 to 15 supporters alone debating because no one wants to take risk angering his fan base.

 

[subshakerz]

I am sure if Kohli was captain rather than Dhoni with an aging team in England and Australia in 2011, he would have still managed a win here or there rather than two straight 4-0 whitewashes abroad. Dhoni had a good spell from 2009 to 2011 but was far too defensive compared to Kohli.

 

[subshakerz]

And please, if Rahane was captain temporarily at any point of time for a small duration, during Kohli’s tenure and playing in a setup built by Kohli and Shastri, doesn’t mean he deserves complete or even majority of the credit.

Depends. He deserves a ton of credit if he can lead a rookie side to beat a worldclass Aussie team in their home from one nil down. Call me crazy.