Kapil Dev vs Ryan Harris

[PlayerComparisons]

His averages are affected by playing as a specialist bat and part-time bowler in late career, and debuting exceptionally early at 18 years. If you see his proper bowling years he is even better.

Him doing better at home is the norm for SC bowlers. Srinanth, Kapil and Vaas all average something like 6 points better at home.

Aren’t you the one arguing in this same thread for a players entire career to be looked at lol?

He’s still a great bowler but I’d probably put him at the same level as Walsh.

 

[Burgey]

Nah Imran was a better bowler than Walsh imho. But I mean we aren't exactly comparing plonkers here.

 

[subshakerz]

Aren’t you the one arguing in this same thread for a players entire career to be looked at lol?

He’s still a great bowler but I’d probably put him at the same level as Walsh.

I do, and I don't mind posters downgrading Imran a bit compared to Marshall and Hadlee because of his latter career, it is fair.

Imran >> Walsh though.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Nah Imran was a better bowler than Walsh imho.

Yeah I’m half joking tbh. Just asking some important questions.

 

[subshakerz]

Imran was also one of the best bowlers in World Series Cricket. Saying he didn't do well in Australia is quite odd.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/best_career_bowling_average.html?id=100;type=trophy

 

[TheJediBrah]

It is like saying Pant or Rizwan is better than Adam Gilchrist and considering that as an opinion.

No it's not lol

Neither Pant nor Rizwan have ever been better than Gilchrist even over relatively short periods afaik

 

[TheJediBrah]

Anyway are you guys really saying that Kapil Dev had extended periods where his bowling was as good as peak Ryan Harris? It runs counter to everything I've heard but I'm not going to dismiss it completely

 

[subshakerz]

Anyway are you guys really saying that Kapil Dev had extended periods where his bowling was as good as peak Ryan Harris? It runs counter to everything I've heard but I'm not going to dismiss it completely

It depends what you mean by extended period.

If its one calendar year, I don't think that counts.

His statistical peak period was 79 to 83 which is a five year period similar to Harris, and he doesnt do as well as Harris.

 

[Jayro]

And frankly nor should they. He had a few decent years when he scrubbed the ball dry with bottle tops, then reverted to basically being pretty average again. The extent to which Imran cheated is always glossed over here for some bizarre reason. It's an open secret among blokes who played with and against him at every level. The man set a standard for ball tampering which has never been surpassed.

Not to mention the umpiring support that he got at home grounds, they were cheaters.

 

[subshakerz]

Not to mention the umpiring support that he got at home grounds, they were cheaters.

Yeah the guy who first pushed for neutral umpires is the cheat.

 

[h_hurricane]

Anyway are you guys really saying that Kapil Dev had extended periods where his bowling was as good as peak Ryan Harris? It runs counter to everything I've heard but I'm not going to dismiss it completely

Had posted in the same thread earlier

Peak 1 : 27 tests 118 wickets@ 23. (Jan 1979 - Nov 1981).

Peak 2 : 19 tests 80 wickets@ 23 (Dec 1982-Dec 1983)

In his peak 2, he played 11 tests against full strength WI. I am not sure Harris played against a batting lineup as strong as that one, though SA between 2010-2014 was very good.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Mate tbh Harris was barely getting picked in the Shield earlier in his career. he was cod ordinary. Like, he was never going to be near the test side sooner than when he daybooed.

Exactly this. If anyone was talking about selecting Harris in those days, it was about whether he should get a game for the SACAs over Paul Rofe or Mark Cleary

The answer to which, at that point of his career, was no

 

[subshakerz]

Had posted in the same thread earlier

Peak 1 : 27 tests 118 wickets@ 23. (Jan 1979 - Nov 1981).

Peak 2 : 19 tests 80 wickets@ 23 (Dec 1982-Dec 1983)

In his peak 2, he played 11 tests against full strength WI. I am not sure Harris played against a batting lineup as strong as that one, though SA between 2010-2014 was very good.

This isn't how you determine a bowler's peak though. You are ignoring around a dozen ordinary tests in 82 because it doesnt suit you. You have to include tests in between that are bookended by the quality performances for it to be representative of Kapil at his best. Kapil has basically one extended peak from 79 to 83. Or are you suggesting that after Nov 81 Kapil suddenly regressed as a bowler and then magically peaked again in Dec 82?

The question shouldnt be whether Kapil could string together enough quality performances in a row but how good was he exactly at his best compared to Harris whose best coincided with his entire international career.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Yeah the guy who first pushed for neutral umpires is the cheat.

Did Shakoor Rana push for neutral umpires?

 

[ataraxia]

Or are you suggesting that after Nov 81 Kapil suddenly regressed as a bowler and then magically peaked again in Dec 82?

Is... that not how it works?

 

[harsh.ag]

Anyway are you guys really saying that Kapil Dev had extended periods where his bowling was as good as peak Ryan Harris? It runs counter to everything I've heard but I'm not going to dismiss it completely

�

Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
unfiltered	1978-1994	131	227	4623.2	1060	12867	434	9/83	11/146	29.64	2.78	63.9	23	2	Profile
filtered	1979-1983	56	90	2022.5	413	6130	234	9/83	11/146	26.19	3.03	51.8	18	2

Harris played 27 tests and took 113 wickets. Kapil took 90 wickets off 20 tests in 1979-80 alone with a much better average and SR than Harris's career.

 

[subshakerz]

Is... that not how it works?

It's like saying that when Botham played Australia in 1977 he was in his peak, then when he played the WI in 1980 he wasn't in his peak because he didnt perform but when he played Australia in the 81 Ashes he was in his peak again.

 

[TheJediBrah]

This isn't how you determine a bowler's peak though. You are ignoring around a dozen ordinary tests in 82 because it doesnt suit you. You have to include tests in between that are bookended by the quality performances for it to be representative of Kapil at his best. Kapil has basically one extended peak from 79 to 83. Or are you suggesting that after Nov 81 Kapil suddenly regressed as a bowler and then magically peaked again in Dec 82?

The question should be whether Kapil could string together enough quality performances in a row but how good was he exactly at his best compared to Harris whose best coincided with his entire international career.

This is some moderate-level stats manipulation but it still shows that Kapil was at least close to Harris' level for relatively extended periods which is more than I thought tbh

 

[subshakerz]

Did Shakoor Rana push for neutral umpires?

Imran did.

 

[ataraxia]

So you're saying the peaks are insufficiently-sized?