The Greatest Overs Ever

[bagapath]

 

[mr_mister]

35 posts in and not a single nom for a spinner.

Good.

Did Warnie take his 3 up front against SA in the '99 semi in one over? Total match turning spell at the very least

 

[h_hurricane]

Great over from Wasim Akram to Michael Slater

 

[Migara]

Unfortunately the first ball to Slater is not in the clip. It was a 120-125k filthy delivery which went across Slater and bounced infront of the keeper. Next ball, 10ks quicker, swinging in, and Slater was ages late on a regulation fast medium delivery. Beautifully set up.

 

[subshakerz]

Unfortunately the first ball to Slater is not in the clip. It was a 120-125k filthy delivery which went across Slater and bounced infront of the keeper. Next ball, 10ks quicker, swinging in, and Slater was ages late on a regulation fast medium delivery. Beautifully set up.

Vaas may have learned that from Wasim.

 

[Burgey]

Did Warnie take his 3 up front against SA in the '99 semi in one over? Total match turning spell at the very least

Not the same over but a great spell for sure.

 

[Migara]

Vaas may have learned that from Wasim.

Most likely. But it is well known that Wasim refused to show how reverse swing was achieved to Vaas. He worked it out himself and was able to achieve it at 130ks. That is why I place Vaas as the greatest exponent of reverse swing bowling.

 

[Burgey]

Shook that Migara rates a Sri Lankan so highly

 

[subshakerz]

Most likely. But it is well known that Wasim refused to show how reverse swing was achieved to Vaas. He worked it out himself and was able to achieve it at 130ks. That is why I place Vaas as the greatest exponent of reverse swing bowling.

Vaas also borrowed Wasim's famous technique of hiding the grip of the ball with his other hand during delivery.

Without high pace, reverse swing simply isnt as dangerous though.

 

[trundler]

Shook that Migara rates a Sri Lankan so highly

That's Chaminda 'better ODI bowler than Waqar' Vaas.

 

[Migara]

That's Chaminda 'better ODI bowler than Waqar' Vaas.

The ICC ratings supports me, and a statistical analysis in cricinfo also supports the claim. Vaas is above 600 points for a time roughly equal to Waqar's career. Better consistency, better peak, better quality wickets, better ODI bowler.

 

[smash84]

The ICC ratings supports me, and a statistical analysis in cricinfo also supports the claim. Vaas is above 600 points for a time roughly equal to Waqar's career. Better consistency, better peak, better quality wickets, better ODI bowler.

View attachment 33269

This actually very interesting. Why is there a fairly big difference in their averages though?

 

[Bolo.]

This actually very interesting. Why is there a fairly big difference in their averages though?

Cos Waqar took wickets cheaper .

ICC rankings seem to factor ER in pretty heavily for ODI bowlers, and there will be an adjustment for quality of bats (partly due to the era, and I assume Waqar picked up more lower order wickets with reverse).

 

[subshakerz]

Cos Waqar took wickets cheaper .

ICC rankings seem to factor ER in pretty heavily for ODI bowlers, and there will be an adjustment for quality of bats (partly due to the era, and I assume Waqar picked up more lower order wickets with reverse).

Shouldnt that go to his credit for being a gun death over bowler, blasting out tails?

I still find it hard to take how Vaas could be a better ODI bowler. Their ER difference is only 0.5 Not only do they have a huge gulf in averages and SRs, but Vaas also feasted on a lot more minnows and only did excellent against NZ and WI, while Waqar had quality returns against India, SL, SA, England, NZ and borderline WI and has matchwinning fifers against every major country. Waqar is arguably the most destructive ODI bowler in cricket history.

If you remove minnows, Vaas likely averages over 30 while Waqar's record is the same. No way is Vaas a better ODI bowler.

 

[Migara]

This actually very interesting. Why is there a fairly big difference in their averages though?

Quality of wickets. Vaas exclusively knocked the top order out and then spinners took ovber, and later Malinga joined in. Waqar has a lot of tail end wickets to his tally. In addition, Vaas' superb ER helps too.

Same reasons why Pollock is an ATG ODI bowler.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

First 3 overs last night: Starc, Hazlewood, and Cummins to Allen and Conway.

 

[Migara]

Shouldnt that go to his credit for being a gun death over bowler, blasting out tails?

I still find it hard to take how Vaas could be a better ODI bowler. Their ER difference is only 0.5 Not only do they have a huge gulf in averages and SRs, but Vaas also feasted on a lot more minnows and only did excellent against NZ and WI, while Waqar had quality returns against India, SL, SA, England, NZ and borderline WI and has matchwinning fifers against every major country. Waqar is arguably the most destructive ODI bowler in cricket history.

If you remove minnows, Vaas likely averages over 30 while Waqar's record is the same. No way is Vaas a better ODI bowler.

Vaas averages better (35) vs Waqar (41) against the best / second best side of the era - Australia. and that is maximum Vaas averages against a side. He was much much more consistent bowler. The ER difference of 0.5 is much higher when adjusyed. Waqar started and ended the career early, so his ER is likely to go up on adjusting as well. And that ER of around 4 is in ATG realm.

In addition he had wood over the two best batsmen of the era. He managed to control Tendulkar, and make Lara his bunny, post 2000, not allowing score much resulting in cheap dismissals.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Most likely. But it is well known that Wasim refused to show how reverse swing was achieved to Vaas. He worked it out himself and was able to achieve it at 130ks. That is why I place Vaas as the greatest exponent of reverse swing bowling.

Vaas was very good but looking at left arm ODI seam bowlers he's only the 6th best compared to Wasim, Starc, Boult, Bracken, and Johnson. Better than Zaheer though.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

In addition he had wood over the two best batsmen of the era. He managed to control Tendulkar, and make Lara his bunny, post 2000.

Michael Bevan was better than Lara.

 

[subshakerz]

Vaas averages better (35) vs Waqar (41) against the best / second best side of the era - Australia. and that is maximum Vaas averages against a side. He was much much more consistent bowler. The ER difference of 0.5 is much higher when adjusyed. Waqar started and ended the career early, so his ER is likely to go up on adjusting as well.

In addition he had wood over the two best batsmen of the era. He managed to control Tendulkar, and make Lara his bunny, post 2000.

Come on bro, they both failed against Australia. Waqar faired worse but thats no argument in Vaas' favor. Vaas averages 30 plus against all serious batting sides of his era while the only side Waqar failed against is Australia.

You argue Waqar took more tailend wickets, but Waqar also took more wickets period than Vaas while playing 60 less matches and competing with wickets with two of the greatest OD bowlers of all-time, Wasim and Saqlain, and Vaas played nearly twice as much against minnows whom he feasted against.

Against normal non-minnow opposition, Vaas averages 30, Waqar 24.

All-round records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

All-round records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

There are limits to national bias. Please just accept reality that Waqar is a superior ODI bowler.