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Viv Richards vs Brian Lara

Who was the greater test batsman?

  • Viv Richards

    Votes: 36 57.1%

  • Brian Lara

    Votes: 27 42.9%
  • Total voters
    63
Migara

Migara

International Coach
Chrish said:
I think so but then again, Ponting had a back lift too (not as pronounced as Lara but still significant). And he was the best player of raw pace of his time.
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Nah, in late 90s, Aravinda, Inzamam and Ponting were the best players of short and fast bowling.
 
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subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Migara said:
Probably it has equal importance during Lara's career. It was time the best spin stock in test cricket history was in operation. Musdhtaq, Kumble, Warne, Murali, Saqlain, Harbhajan, Herath and MacGill all were running the show then. And these guys took unprecedented number of wickets too.
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Only Warne and Murali approach the threat of an ATG pacer tho. And it's not like he scored runs against all of them. Certainly didn't against Kumble, Saqlain and Mushtaq. In the 90s he actually had a poor record in the subcontinent.
 
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subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Migara said:
He bounces Lara alright, but between bouncers gets destroyed. Flicked a ball on middle to fine leg for four, and back cuts a ball just outside off, and square drives the next through 3rd man and deep backward point. Lara took on fast men even if he was not the best against them. Viv probably did it with the spinners. Unfortunately we don't have a good one like Murali or Warne to see whether Viv could continue in his usual way. Only bowler made him to struggle was Chandra, who was unique.
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He was troubled against certain leggies but also scored against them too. I wouldn't saying playing spin was his forte but it wasnt a weakness either
 
Xuhaib

Xuhaib

International Coach
subshakerz said:
He averaged 43 and was outscored by Haynes and Hooper. I wouldn't say he bosses them.
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Yeah as a kid I remember being disappointed with Lara efforts in that series he was my favorite player before that series this was also peak waqar bowled like a wind. Haynes was immense in this
 
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Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
subshakerz said:
I think this clip is a perfect demonstration of why Lara struggled. His style of exciting strokeplay combined with the high backlift was simply too risky frankly to dominate a speedy pacer of high class for too long. In Pakistan in 97, against Wasim he was also dismissed playing loose strokes. Viv could probably get away with something like this approach but then he was a lot stronger than Lara and likely had better reflexes too.

Tendulkar in contrast if you look at his centuries against Donald in 96 and Wasim/Waqar in 99 was far more patient, playing straight and rarely played uppishly or pulled. A much safer approach.
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Earlier you posted that Lara had series averages of 43, 21, 31 and 40 vs Donald and the Ws. Pray tell what were Sachin's?? Here they are over 17 tests: 36, 34, 28, 40, 42.75, and 36.50. Not that much better. As a matter of fact, Sachin's record is hardly better, only difference being that Sachin scored a few. centuries.

Same applies to their records vs NZ with Bond which was also brought. Neither player played Bond particularly well. My point? Sachin was in not in any way shape or form a level above Lara vs the pacemen they played in common.
 
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subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Slifer said:
Earlier you posted that Lara had series averages of 43, 21, 31 and 40 vs Donald and the Ws. Pray tell what were Sachin's?? Here they are over 17 tests: 36, 34, 28, 40, 42.75, and 36.50. Not that much better. As a matter of fact, Sachin's record is hardly better, only difference being that Sachin scored a few. centuries.

Same applies to their records vs NZ with Bond which was also brought. Neither player played Bond particularly well. My point? Sachin was in not in any way shape or form a level above Lara vs the pacemen they played in common.
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I don't think Sachin is a level above Lara against quality pace, like Viv was, but he was certainly better, the centuries being one point of difference. The other is that there wasn't really a series where Tendulkar was repeatedly falling to those bowlers the way Lara was against McGrath in 96, 2Ws in 97 and Donald in 98. In other words, he was never owned by those bowlers in a series the way Lara was.

I would also add Sachin's terrific record against Steyn which is a point in his favor.
 
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Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
subshakerz said:
I don't think Sachin is a level above Lara against quality pace, like Viv was, but he was certainly better, the centuries being one point of difference. The other is that there wasn't really a series where Tendulkar was repeatedly falling to those bowlers the way Lara was against McGrath in 96, 2Ws in 97 and Donald in 98. In other words, he was never owned by those bowlers in a series the way Lara was.

I would also add Sachin's terrific record against Steyn which is a point in his favor.
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Lara never faced Steyn so that's moot. Sachin never failed like Lara vs Donald and co but he also never absolutely dominated McGrath like Lara did. And fwiw on a dismissals per test, I believe McGrath dismissed Sachin at a higher rate than he did Lara.

Lara was not consistently owned by the WWs, he had one good series and one terrible. Donald yeah, he had Lara's number. Lara gave as good as her got vs McGrath. Two bad series in Australia, one atg in 99, another good in 95 and good in 2 tests in 2003.
 
BazBall21

BazBall21

International Captain
Think Tendulkar was better than Lara against all types of pace. Not by miles, but clearly better. Lara better than Tendulkar against spin.
 
Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
trundler said:
Wasn't Lara better against Murali and Tendulkar against Warne?
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Tendulkar owned Warne I'm 98 in the absence of McGrath. Lara owned Warne (with McGrath) and literally caused him to dropped in 99. My point is Lara rarely faced Warne without McGrath to keep him in check.
 
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subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Slifer said:
Lara never faced Steyn so that's moot. Sachin never failed like Lara vs Donald and co but he also never absolutely dominated McGrath like Lara did. And fwiw on a dismissals per test, I believe McGrath dismissed Sachin at a higher rate than he did Lara.

Lara was not consistently owned by the WWs, he had one good series and one terrible. Donald yeah, he had Lara's number. Lara gave as good as her got vs McGrath. Two bad series in Australia, one atg in 99, another good in 95 and good in 2 tests in 2003.
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I think you are missing the wider point. Tendulkar faced McGrath, 2Ws, Donald and Steyn, scored tons against all of them and at no point did any of them have his number. If he had a weakness against any of them, it would have been exposed at least once.

That's enough proof for me that he handled quality pace better than Lara who had a much more mixed record.
 
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