Viv Richards vs Brian Lara

[slippy888]

Brian Lara was a cricketing idol for most but Viv Richards changed the way a batsman would approach the game.

 

[Raz0r6ack]

It seems Viv Richards was a bit like Shane Warne in the sense that he didn't have the best average but that he had an aura and an impact on the game that you can't quantify into statistics.

 

[BazBall21]

It seems Viv Richards was a bit like Shane Warne in the sense that he didn't have the best average but that he had an aura and an impact on the game that you can't quantify into statistics.

Yeah. Good comparison that. Two of the biggest entertainers/showmen of the modern era.

 

[subshakerz]

It seems Viv Richards was a bit like Shane Warne in the sense that he didn't have the best average but that he had an aura and an impact on the game that you can't quantify into statistics.

I think statswise Viv is actually near flawless.

50 plus average overall, 70 plus SR, 40 plus average in every country except NZ where he only played once.

But yeah, the way he played set him apart. Like Warne, he changed the nature of his discipline.

 

[BazBall21]

I think statswise Viv is actually near flawless.

50 plus average overall, 70 plus SR, 40 plus average in every country except NZ where he only played once.

He certainly doesn't have a caveat on the same scale as Warne's record against India.

 

[Coronis]

No doubt that Viv is one of the ATG’s and perhaps I don’t rate him as highly as others here due to not actually seeing him play, especially during his peak. But just for me personally, the period after his peak, compromising almost 80 tests and 10 years he was a fairly average batsman. But thats just me.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

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Tbh I’m usually not that bothered by a bit of a decline at the end of someones career, its only natural, but this is a majority of his career as a good batsman, but not really great anymore. Obviously he’s ATG but in a comparison with other ATG batsmen it puts him down a bit for me.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

No doubt that Viv is one of the ATG’s and perhaps I don’t rate him as highly as others here due to not actually seeing him play, especially during his peak. But just for me personally, the period after his peak, compromising almost 80 tests and 10 years he was a fairly average batsman. But thats just me.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Tbh I’m usually not that bothered by a bit of a decline at the end of someones career, its only natural, but this is a majority of his career as a good batsman, but not really great anymore. Obviously he’s ATG but in a comparison with other ATG batsmen it puts him down a bit for me.

Numbers of years averaging 50+:
Richards - 8
Lara - 8

 

[subshakerz]

No doubt that Viv is one of the ATG’s and perhaps I don’t rate him as highly as others here due to not actually seeing him play, especially during his peak. But just for me personally, the period after his peak, compromising almost 80 tests and 10 years he was a fairly average batsman. But thats just me.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Tbh I’m usually not that bothered by a bit of a decline at the end of someones career, its only natural, but this is a majority of his career as a good batsman, but not really great anymore. Obviously he’s ATG but in a comparison with other ATG batsmen it puts him down a bit for me.

That breakdown is a bit misleading.

Viv's career had three phases:
From 74 to 80 when he was averaging 60 in an unreal ATG peak
81 to 88 when he averaged 47, less consistent but still unquestionably the best batsman in the world for most of that time
88 onwards when his form fell drastically and he averaged 36 in his last 19 tests

So really he was at worldclass level and above for more than 80 percent of his career which is still impressive. The problem is he relied on his quick reflexes and power, physical gifts, so when he aged it went downhill quickly.

 

[subshakerz]

For contrast, Lara's career has three clear phases as well:

90 to 95, averaging 60 as a boy wonder
96 to 2000, averaging 40 in an inconsistent turbulent phase
2001 to 2006, averaging 60 again in a late career peak

Lara's middle struggling phase started in the 96/97 series in Australia when McGrath ruthlessly exposed his technique in a way I have seldom seen for a ATG batsman. It lasted until that famous 2001 SL series when he got his average above 50 again.

 

[Slifer]

Richards I believe was one guy who never played for his average he averages 50plus despite not caring one bit about it. Lara post 2000 would ensure he cashes in big if he got in.

Viv for me by the tiniest of margins.

Lara didn't really play for his average either tbf. He has the least amount of not outs among batsmen with 100 + tests. And we all know he could've easily had more than the 6 he ended up with. Lara earned his 50+ average the harder way ie with huge scores.

 

[Slifer]

Lara played 16 tests against Wasim, Waqar and Donald and never scored a century against them. He averaged 43, 21, 31 and 40 in his four series against them. He also failed in his single series against Bond in NZ.

McGrath is pretty much the only ATG class pacer Lara has a good record against and even that is mixed since McGrath took his wicket 15 times.

Richards never faced his own attack but has centuries against Lillee, Imran and Hadlee and at least one mega series against each of them.

This is my argument as well. Viv had at least one series where an atg bowler felt the weight of his bat. I can't imagine Viv playing all those tests vs Wasim and co and not scoring at least one 100. Actually, viv did manage a 100 vs a young Akram. I will say this though, Viv never faced a spinner as great as Murali or Warne both of whom Lara dominated. Doubt Viv would've done as well vs either but I don't think he'd struggle the same way Lara did vs raw pace.

 

[Slifer]

Anyway for me when it comes to WI batsmen and I don't care it's Viv daylight then the rest.

 

[Anil]

love both of them, can watch them play all day, won't be able to choose...

 

[ankitj]

No doubt that Viv is one of the ATG’s and perhaps I don’t rate him as highly as others here due to not actually seeing him play, especially during his peak. But just for me personally, the period after his peak, compromising almost 80 tests and 10 years he was a fairly average batsman. But thats just me.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Tbh I’m usually not that bothered by a bit of a decline at the end of someones career, its only natural, but this is a majority of his career as a good batsman, but not really great anymore. Obviously he’s ATG but in a comparison with other ATG batsmen it puts him down a bit for me.

But he was averaging 53 until 1988 after playing 102 tests.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[Coronis]

But he was averaging 53 until 1988 after playing 102 tests.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Which means he’d been averaging 45 over his last ~60 matches at that point..

Want to once again reiterate that Viv’s great, but in this particular comparison, Lara didn’t have such a long term down period and was also facing great bowlers like Waqar, Wasim, Donald, Pollock, McGrath, Warne.

 

[subshakerz]

Which means he’d been averaging 45 over his last ~60 matches at that point..

Want to once again reiterate that Viv’s great, but in this particular comparison, Lara didn’t have such a long term down period and was also facing great bowlers like Waqar, Wasim, Donald, Pollock, McGrath, Warne.

It depends what you call a down period. Like I said, he had 40 tests in peak, and then 62 tests when he was averaging 47, and then 19 tests when he dropped to 36.

Averaging 47 with a super high SR in the mid-80s seems still worldclass.

Lara had a dip of 47 tests between 96 and 2001 in which he averaged 39 which is worse than Viv's.

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[BazBall21]

My top 15 WI test bats of all time

1) Sobers
2) Viv
3) Lara
4) Headley
5) Weekes
6) Walcott
7) Kanhai
8) Worrell
9) Greenidge
10) Lloyd
11) Chanderpaul
12) Hunte
13) Richardson
14) Friedricks
15) Nurse/Kallicharran

 

[honestbharani]

Lara... pretty easily.

 

[ankitj]

Which means he’d been averaging 45 over his last ~60 matches at that point..

I know. Just illustrates that by looking at slices you can make argument both ways. It's enough to say that he "only" averaged 50.2 to make your point.

 

[Slifer]

My top 15 WI test bats of all time

1) Sobers
2) Viv
3) Lara
4) Headley
5) Weekes
6) Walcott
7) Kanhai
8) Worrell
9) Greenidge
10) Lloyd
11) Chanderpaul
12) Hunte
13) Richardson
14) Friedricks
15) Nurse/Kallicharran

Pretty fair ranking tbh. Well done