Ben Stokes vs Ravindra Jadeja

[The Sean]

Yeah instead of talking about batting difference and bowling difference, if you think of it as:

Difference in primary skill (Jadeja bowling v Stokes batting)
Difference in secondary skill (Stokes batting v Jadeja bowling)

Don't pretend that's not just the same skill in a different order. I'm onto your shenanigans.

 

[Xix2565]

Don't pretend that's not just the same skill in a different order.

Probably meant to change it the 2nd time.

 

[The Sean]

Probably meant to change it the 2nd time.

Yes, I believe you're probably right.

 

[Prince EWS]

Probably meant to change it the 2nd time.

Haha yes, fixed.

 

[nightprowler10]

Secondary skills are pretty similar but Jadeja is comfortably better in primary skill, right? So the answer is obvious.

This ignores the fact that pace >> spin.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Make results public plz

Not sure how to do that now

 

[jayjay]

You are most welcome to leave if you think its so backward.

I have to stay and bring some cricketing sense to this place. You will appreciate it when you turn 13.

 

[ataraxia]

hb has been on CW for longer than you've been alive ffs

 

[Xix2565]

This ignores the fact that pace >> spin.

Things people say to cope.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Not sure how to do that now

When you create the poll just tick the box that says “Display votes publicly”.
Though there is evidence to suggest that fewer people vote out of a sense of paranoia. It’s always interesting to see the names of the voters though, and they’re often multis with no actual posts to their name. Back in the day there was an Imran fan boy named something like Buttender Spit who had about eight accounts and used to log in one after the other to vote multiple times in any poll involving Imran.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Probably just practicing for the real elections.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I don't really wish to argue this in detail but it completely misses the point of the criticism of red inkers being for the most part about avoiding the strike specifically when there's a poor batsman at the other end. Situations where you know the innings is going to end call for risky shot making by the set batsman to maximise run output before the team is bowled out. This makes it very likely the batsman may get out soon. Case 1 described by Davis is thus what people are generally talking about here, not just looking at the total not outs.

Further, since he's talking about run output there's the point that over an entire career, if two players have the same average but one has significantly more runs and fewer not outs, his run output (literally his actual contribution to his team) has been higher. Perfectly fair to consider him to have had a better career as a batsman.

This is the only aspect where you can give any acknowledgement to the oft misused idea that "not outs boost averages", and it occurs very rarely in practice. Furthermore in the context of Jadeja v Stokes it's clearly not a factor as Jadeja obviously doesn't do that*.




*I know that's not what you're saying OS, just pointing it out for posterity

 

[Prince EWS]

This is the only aspect where you can give any acknowledgement to the oft misused idea that "not outs boost averages", and it occurs very rarely in practice. Furthermore in the context of Jadeja v Stokes it's clearly not a factor as Jadeja obviously doesn't do that*.

Actually Jadeja kind of does do that sometimes, lol.

 

[CricAddict]

Actually Jadeja kind of does do that sometimes, lol.

It is also about trusting the tail-enders who have all tried to improve their batting in recent years including Bumrah, something that Steve Waugh used to do with great success.

Also, I haven't noticed Jadeja doing it much. Will be interesting if you or OS can point out any specific innings where he did this.

 

[Prince EWS]

It is also about trusting the tail-enders who have all tried to improve their batting in recent years including Bumrah, something that Steve Waugh used to do with great success.

If he keeps getting stranded it's not really working though.

 

[TheJediBrah]

If he keeps getting stranded it's not really working though.

or is it

 

[Prince EWS]

or is it

no.

 

[Flem274*]

Also weird that people seem to dismiss the bowling difference like it's nothing. Especially considering how important taking wickets actually is. More than makes up the batting difference.

Good bowlers have never been less valuable as individuals in modern times than they are now tbh, in a manner not seen since the 80s or 90s.

If forced to choose, India themselves would take Stokes over Jadeja because they have Ashwin and Axar. What they don't have is a functional middle order.

I've been swayed to Jadeja probably being the better player here, albeit one who either has not had the opportunity or failed to take the opportunity to perform in the variety of conditions Stokes has, but a large part of Stokes still being so relevant in 2022 apart from him being an English player with the usual hype behind him is until very recently he was arguably in the top 10 batsmen in the world and almost definitely in the top 20. Jadeja is a replaceable spin bowling allrounder who gets juggled around along with Ashwin and Axar away from favourable conditions.

 

[Prince EWS]

If forced to choose, India themselves would take Stokes over Jadeja because they have Ashwin and Axar. What they don't have is a functional middle order.

Yeah but ironically enough England would probably take Jadeja so they could play four specialist quicks and always have a world class spin option.

They should trade tbh.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah but ironically enough England would probably take Jadeja so they could play four specialist quicks and always have a world class spin option.

I thought about this but then considering Stokes is their second best batsman by light years, let it go.