Asian fast bowlers since Wasim Akram's retirement

[h_hurricane]

Do you even watch cricket? I mean you did just rate Ntini as the 19th best bowler in the world so I have to wonder.

Bumrah is one of the most skilled and talented bowlers in a while. He's ****ing magnificent.

Also make up your mind - should his bowling stats be adjusted upwards if he'd played more at home or not because he'd be bowling against trash batting line ups?

Yeah, Bumrah would average a ****ing 18 if he plays as many home games as overseas. In a single game, he brought down his home average from 29 to 15, exactly where it belongs for a player of that calibre.

 

[jayjay]

Do you even watch cricket? I mean you did just rate Ntini as the 19th best bowler in the world so I have to wonder.

Bumrah is one of the most skilled and talented bowlers in a while. He's ****ing magnificent.

Also make up your mind - should his bowling stats be adjusted upwards if he'd played more at home or not because he'd be bowling against trash batting line ups?

You are typing angry, are you ok?

 

[Kirkut]

Yes. My point was that Asif was thought of as CLOSE to great. His performances over a longer period of time would have helped solidify his legacy, but that never happened.

Bumrah is not quite in the same boat because most observers would agree he doens't have the skill and nuance that Asif has, but the numbers are excellent and if it stays that way...lets say over 50 more tests then he would definitely be a great bowler.

Only in CW where Asif is McGrath with 2 extra gears and Anderson is mediocre even if he gets to 700 wickets, while swinging it at 87 mph and 40 years of age. Only in CW.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

 

[Xix2565]

With Bumrah, it is quite interesting that he has only played 5 tests at home, a mixture of both injuries and being kept away from the spinning track of India where his numbers would greatly inflate. I'd be curious to see how he develops as he plays more tests and more of them at home. He may end up as a great bowler but there is a long way to go.

Yes. My point was that Asif was thought of as CLOSE to great. His performances over a longer period of time would have helped solidify his legacy, but that never happened.

Bumrah is not quite in the same boat because most observers would agree he doens't have the skill and nuance that Asif has, but the numbers are excellent and if it stays that way...lets say over 50 more tests then he would definitely be a great bowler.

Have you actually watched Indian Test cricket at home? Indian pacers have been doing great as a whole in the past few years, as shown below:

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=team;host=6;orderby=bowling_average;spanmin2=01+Jan+2016;spanval2=span;template=results;type=bowling

Apart from Ireland's 1 match against Afghanistan in Dehradun, every other pace lineup is averaging above 30 since 2016, while India's own are averaging 23.76. Even extending it back to start of 2015 Indian pacers average 24.03, and the same still holds true for every other pace attack. They're a massive reason as to why we dominate now at home, along with Ashwin/Jadeja. Without them we don't win games like Bangalore 2017 or destroy SA in 2019.

The only Indian pacers to not have a good record in this timeframe are retirees Varun Aaron and Stuart Binny, memelord of the Fab 4 Virat Kohli, Hardik "no backbone anymore" Pandya and Lord Thakur who was unfairly injured just 10 balls into his debut Test bowling by the gods above who feared his almighty powers would be too much for WI to face. They combined for only 37.5 overs overall, in which they gave away 116 runs and took 2 wickets. And of those bunch, Kohli is Kohli, Pandya had brief moments of brilliance and could provide balance in the lower order with his batting while the Lord is the Lord who only statpads against everyone else as revenge for his injury.

So to say that Bumrah's record would be hurt by playing at home when he's a great bowler in his own right is bizarre to say the least.

 

[Shri]

swinging it at 87 mph and 40 years of age

uh unless this is a ***ual thing that we don't know about, this just isn't true

 

[PaulLennon]

shoiab will always be better than shami unless shami ascends to true greatness.

shami is a very good bowler. shoiab was a force of nature. 4th best quick the subcontinent has ever produced, though bumrah may dislodge him.

you are only saying that cause you are a new zealnder against whom shoaib was great.

 

[PaulLennon]

Yes. My point was that Asif was thought of as CLOSE to great. His performances over a longer period of time would have helped solidify his legacy, but that never happened.

Bumrah is not quite in the same boat because most observers would agree he doens't have the skill and nuance that Asif has, but the numbers are excellent and if it stays that way...lets say over 50 more tests then he would definitely be a great bowler.

this makes no sense.

bumrah already has played more matches than asif with more wickets, a better average, more 5fers without that crazy home/away average skew.

 

[PaulLennon]

I don't think the number of wickets are as important as averages and even then, the context of actually seeing those bowlers play and the matches they helped win etc makes for a great bowler.

Of all those listed in the post Wasim era, only Asif is thought of as close to great, with Bumrah still young and building his career but potentially the next great. The others are merely good or just work horses like Sharma, who admittedly has had a late career surge but is certainly not a great.

With Bumrah, it is quite interesting that he has only played 5 tests at home, a mixture of both injuries and being kept away from the spinning track of India where his numbers would greatly inflate. I'd be curious to see how he develops as he plays more tests and more of them at home. He may end up as a great bowler but there is a long way to go.

in those 5 tests bumrah averages 15.

you know how many tests asif played at home? 4
you know his average there? 42

 

[PaulLennon]

Those are certainly good numbers but it also has to do with some abject batting teams touring in that period .The SA line up in particular was one of the worst ever, not to mention the england team that also toured in that period. Stats require A LOT of context.

naah. its not just from 2018. 2015 onwards indian pacers have been great at home against some pretty strong lineups.

Umesh averaged 12 against SA in 2015 with AB, Amla, Elgar etc. Rabada 55, Steyn infinite.

Bhuvi averaged 12 against NZ in 2016 with Williamson, Taylor etc. Boult 33, Wagner 39.

Shami averaged 25 against Eng in 2016 with Cook, Root, Stokes et al. Anderson 53, Broad 31.

Umesh averaged 23 against Aus in 2017 with prime Smith, Warner et al. Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc 30+.

Indian fast bowlers have outbowled overseas fast bowlers including much fancied ones from SA, NZ, Eng, Aus EVERY home series.

It never happens the other way around though. Even when India lose, their spinners have still fared better than the home team's.

 

[PaulLennon]

Have you actually watched Indian Test cricket at home? Indian pacers have been doing great as a whole in the past few years, as shown below:

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=team;host=6;orderby=bowling_average;spanmin2=01+Jan+2016;spanval2=span;template=results;type=bowling

Apart from Ireland's 1 match against Afghanistan in Dehradun, every other pace lineup is averaging above 30 since 2016, while India's own are averaging 23.76. Even extending it back to start of 2015 Indian pacers average 24.03, and the same still holds true for every other pace attack. They're a massive reason as to why we dominate now at home, along with Ashwin/Jadeja. Without them we don't win games like Bangalore 2017 or destroy SA in 2019.

The only Indian pacers to not have a good record in this timeframe are retirees Varun Aaron and Stuart Binny, memelord of the Fab 4 Virat Kohli, Hardik "no backbone anymore" Pandya and Lord Thakur who was unfairly injured just 10 balls into his debut Test bowling by the gods above who feared his almighty powers would be too much for WI to face. They combined for only 37.5 overs overall, in which they gave away 116 runs and took 2 wickets. And of those bunch, Kohli is Kohli, Pandya had brief moments of brilliance and could provide balance in the lower order with his batting while the Lord is the Lord who only statpads against everyone else as revenge for his injury.

So to say that Bumrah's record would be hurt by playing at home when he's a great bowler in his own right is bizarre to say the least.

Dharamsala 2017 I think is the prime one.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Flintoff's peak had shades of Caribbean bowling greats but he isn't counted among great bowlers, is he?

Well it was a very short peak and he still averaged 32 with the ball. I think Flintoff was the most overrated cricketer of the last 20 years. Good entertainer however.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Bumrah is okay, but he has struggled in India's most important tests in recent years.

I think long-term the smiling sofa will end up better

 

[Shri]

but he has struggled in India's most important tests in recent years

bowlers are allowed to have off days. even atgs

 

[Xix2565]

Bumrah is okay, but he has struggled in India's most important tests in recent years.

I think long-term the smiling sofa will end up better

The smiling sofa got nothing worthwhile so far against Australia in Pakistan on dead roads. If you want to you can do this for all bowlers but it's pointless ultimately.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

bowlers are allowed to have off days. even atgs

The trouble is that he averages 47 against NZ who have been India's biggest challenge.

Meanwhile Kyle Jamieson averages 17.72 against India.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Jamieson should stop losing tests at home to Ebadot hossain. That's his biggest challenge so far, not puny India.

 

[Xix2565]

The trouble is that he averages 47 against NZ who have been India's biggest challenge.

Meanwhile Kyle Jamieson averages 17.72 against India.

NZ were lucky Siraj didn't get to play more against them.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Jamieson should stop losing tests at home to Ebadot hossain. That's his biggest challenge so far, not puny India.

Don't remind me!

 

[PaulLennon]

Bumrah is okay, but he has struggled in India's most important tests in recent years.

I think long-term the smiling sofa will end up better

rubbish. lords 2021, oval 2021, mcg 2018, mcg 2021 - all important tests.

you can't determine important tests as the ones that have been lost.

i mean ind won in nz in 2009. eng was in 2007 and aus never and bumrah has ensured two wins in aus and at least a draw in eng.