Besides Root Will Any England Batter Average Over 40 This Decade?

[Xix2565]

There's no possible way to know this for sure, which wouldn't be so hard for you accept if you didn't insist on posting like you're the God's gift to cricket analysis and calling anyone who disagrees with you an idiot.

Yet for some reason the trend dating back pre pandemic is completely ignored as a counterpoint of sorts that better prepared batters were already struggling without the demands of the pandemic. What makes you think that the lack of pandemic would let batters gain some runs?

I've brought up points like these before, but they've been similarly dismissed or ignored. I don't pretend to be more than an idiot who likes cricket analysis but most of you have been idiots who couldn't or didn't bother to understand in the first place.

Yeah, this. I appreciate I don't have all the answers, but I feel like I can mount a somewhat convincing case that a range of factors that include the predominance of T20, COVID, highly-skilled bowlers, video analysis etc have contributed to the drop in run making lately. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm partly right, maybe I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

I also enjoy other people's points of view, but not this X guy's. It's been tedious to share a thread with a person who came up with the following: Playing T20s regularly or not has no real impact that can be measured, so basically has no impact. I mean, this as Spark said is just a weird obsession with a single Youtube video and some bar graphs.

Of these only the effects of Covid haven't been explored in this discussion but the rest are all either mentioned in the video or here. Like sure, you'll be on the right track like a lot of people who've noticed this and made media online about it.

You haven't given anything verifiable to suggest T20s have had an impact on runscoring so I don't know why calling it bullshit is so offputting.

 

[Daemon]

President Xi really turning the heat up in this thread

 

[Shady Slim]

President Xi really turning the heat up in this thread

uh i don't think i've posted in it yet man

 

[Spark]

President Xi really turning the heat up in this thread

one presumes that president xi understands the concept of "just because it's hard to quantify doesn't mean it doesn't exist"

 

[SteveNZ]

Yet for some reason the trend dating back pre pandemic is completely ignored as a counterpoint of sorts that better prepared batters were already struggling without the demands of the pandemic. What makes you think that the lack of pandemic would let batters gain some runs?

I've brought up points like these before, but they've been similarly dismissed or ignored. I don't pretend to be more than an idiot who likes cricket analysis but most of you have been idiots who couldn't or didn't bother to understand in the first place.

Of these only the effects of Covid haven't been explored in this discussion but the rest are all either mentioned in the video or here. Like sure, you'll be on the right track like a lot of people who've noticed this and made media online about it.

You haven't given anything verifiable to suggest T20s have had an impact on runscoring so I don't know why calling it bull**** is so offputting.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, opinions and name calling with the group in this thread. It's been thoroughly unpleasant.

 

[Immenso]

I think Kimber may be onto something, and it is an interesting video. Xix2565' fundamentalist uptake of it though, and dismissal of any other contributing factors,, is just baaaad reading.

It's probably 5 paes back in a post by now - but I think he has for example extrapolated the MCG making pitches more sporting after the 2017 Boxing Day Test bad report, as meaning all Australian pitches have become harder to bat on since forever. Rather than an improvement at one ground (on the previous decade) after the dire borefests since the MCG started using drop-ins 10 to 15 years earlier. Has he seen an early 80 MCG ground grubber?

Anyway. Other irritations ....:
- dismissal of pandemic impact on preparations (E.g. West Indies haven't had a domestic 4 day comp for 2 years)
- Using the Test Specialists average less than all format players. This one is a bit flawed from Jared I think. I mean Jeet Raval and Rory Burns and Dom Sibley and Kraigg Brathwaite are test specialists for a reason. They aren't as good a cricketers as plenty of their team mates who are all formats and creaming it.

 

[Immenso]

For a few more contras. Since start of pandemic. (So basically, this decade so far, but not since the start of the dip in 2018)

The teams playing the most, are the teams with historically bad batting by their standards.

 

[Immenso]

This is since 2018.

If my maths is correct. And it probably isn't .... I was going to say England impact this stat 43% more than NZ does .... ?

By the huge amount they play - England going through a historically bad period with their batting has almost x% more impact than the fact NZ has been going through a historically boom period with their batting.

 

[Immenso]

And on the opposite side of the same coin.

England being good at batting pre 2018, would have more impact on the overall averages by year than the fact that NZ used to bat by the worst of the 'big 8'.

 

[_00_deathscar]

That's a fair point, but Australia, India and others are also struggling. It's not just a case of England pushing that average to its depths alone while NZ doing well but barely playing any tests isn't really moving it much.

 

[Starfighter]

one presumes that president xi understands the concept of "just because it's hard to quantify doesn't mean it doesn't exist"

Betcha he does. Maybe our Xix could try watching a cricket match or two rather than playing it on a spreadsheet. You can see dodgy techniques.

And the influence of T20 goes beyond just the techniques of those who do play. England has destroyed their first class season to accommodate their limited overs competitions, and plenty of other countries have the issue to a lesser extent. If the prioritisation of T20 damages the system for producing test batsmen, that will eventually show up in the stats.

 

[SteveNZ]

Anyway. Other irritations ....:
- Using the Test Specialists average less than all format players. This one is a bit flawed from Jared I think. I mean Jeet Raval and Rory Burns and Dom Sibley and Kraigg Brathwaite are test specialists for a reason. They aren't as good a cricketers as plenty of their team mates who are all formats and creaming it.

Yep, agreed. Same with Elgar, although he's made it work by and large.

I see three distinct camps in Test cricket. Your top onions like Williamson, Smith, Kohli, even Babar/Karunaratne/Rohit who built their games very strongly on FC cricket and are able to transfer their games across all formats as a result. They make up the predominance of the top 10 batting rankings - all over 31 years old. Then there's the multi-formatters, who didn't build a base in longer form cricket as much and played/desired T20 in their development. Those are all over the world. Then there's the Test specialists, as Immenso said that tend to be the guys who were less talented and had to make their strides in the longer forms.

To me, the growing number of the last two groups is leading, in a certain part, to the lack of output in Test match batting.

 

[honestbharani]

There is this vicious cycle also that the best bowlers dont play much FC cricket which means batsmen coming in are also coming in not being used to sustained high quality bowling on tough pitches with helpful balls. Obviously they then struggle even if they are specifically only long format batsmen.

 

[Teja.]

Kimber is great because he pumps out reasonably good concise video essays at an absurd pace on a range of cricketing issues. His main strengths are his posting frequency, range of coverage and the fact that there is nobody else doing anything remotely as good in cricket though as opposed to the raw quality of the videos.

He often ignores some vitally important factual context in his videos and doesn't have mind blowing insights but I hope he is the gateway to serious cricket analysis in video essay form.

Fun fact: I once 'won' (more upvotes than him lol) a youtube comment skirmish against him on one of his videos. My girlfriend called me 12 hours later asking who this Jarrod Kimber bloke is and why is she getting notifications of him repeatedly posting and deleting a reply, in his effort to land the perfect sarcastic pithy put down, in response to a multi para comment made from her account which she doesn't remember making.

I then realised that I was beefing with this dude in the youtube comments section no less about the FC career trajectory of some **** from my girlfriend's youtube premium account.

 

[Coronis]

probably a reasonable chance that a limited number of the current crop could break the 40 barrier as well tbh, Crawley perhaps

Quality prediction.


Update on this thread with 2 matches left in the Ashes (yes I was gonna wait til after the series but I randomly found this thread just now and will have forgotten by then)

Root 3877 @ 53.84
Bairstow 1593 @ 41.92
Brook 1028 @ 64.25
Duckett 927 @ 57.93

For reference heres how many players other countries have averaging 40+ (min 750 runs) in this decade.

Sri Lanka - 5 (Karunaratne, Mathews, Chandimal, de Silva, Mendis)
Australia - 4 (Labuschagne, Khawaja, Smith, Head)
Pakistan - 4 (Babar, Azhar, Shafique, Imam)
New Zealand - 4 (Williamson, Conway, Blundell, Mitchell)
Bangladesh - 2 (Litton, Mushfiqur)
India - 2 (Pant, Sharma)
West Indies - 0

 

[Nas207]

The posts talking about the failiure to integrate T20 style batting techniques into tests is spot on. That's literally what England have been doing and its infinitely better than whatever they were doing pre 2022

 

[TheJediBrah]

Quality prediction.


Update on this thread with 2 matches left in the Ashes (yes I was gonna wait til after the series but I randomly found this thread just now and will have forgotten by then)

Root 3877 @ 53.84
Bairstow 1593 @ 41.92
Brook 1028 @ 64.25
Duckett 927 @ 57.93

For reference heres how many players other countries have averaging 40+ (min 750 runs) in this decade.

Sri Lanka - 5 (Karunaratne, Mathews, Chandimal, de Silva, Mendis)
Australia - 4 (Labuschagne, Khawaja, Smith, Head)
Pakistan - 4 (Babar, Azhar, Shafique, Imam)
New Zealand - 4 (Williamson, Conway, Blundell, Mitchell)
Bangladesh - 2 (Litton, Mushfiqur)
India - 2 (Pant, Sharma)
West Indies - 0

South Africa 0 as well?

 

[sledger]

Quality prediction.

Yeah it was because I know a lot about cricket you see.

Edit: On a serious note, it wasn't a very bold prediction at the time, despite what various other contributors seemed to suggest. Outside of Australia most of the teams England will play are somewhere around the mediocre-to-prank level. Averaging 40 (which is, as discussed previously, very average), should not be a challenge to any batter who is vaguely...not crap.

 

[Owzat]

That World XI match should be stricken from records, exhibition match

 

[sledger]

Interestingly, I see Ballance (who I mentioned when making my earlier prediction) now turns out for Zimbabwe, and lo and behold is averaging above 40.