Olympics - does anyone actually care anymore?

[GIMH]

I didn’t see that but really it just obfuscates. Other governments doing bad things doesn’t alleviate China and their crimes. And you know, genocide…

 

[Shady Slim]

what it does is provide a useful yardstick against which we can ascertain whether a country’s actions towards china are in good faith or are just motivated by throwing meat to defense contractors and racists and natsec hawks

and in the case of the western nations it is most definitely the latter one. flagrant hypocrisy of the highest order

 

[Furball]

I didn’t see that but really it just obfuscates. Other governments doing bad things doesn’t alleviate China and their crimes. And you know, genocide…

Yeah I hate this argument when I complain about Formula 1 selling out to the Middle East.

 

[GIMH]

what it does is provide a useful yardstick against which we can ascertain whether a country’s actions towards china are in good faith or are just motivated by throwing meat to defense contractors and racists and natsec hawks

and in the case of the western nations it is most definitely the latter one. flagrant hypocrisy of the highest order

Who cares?

China should be opposed. Them being opposed is good.

I remember when the Tories legalised gay marriage in the UK. I read a few posts on Facebook at the time saying they were only doing it to look good. Possibly true, maybe not from Cameron but definitely from some who supported it. But who cares, it was the right outcome.

Explore righteousness at your leisure but it doesn’t excuse evil, stop deflecting criticism of a horrific regime because at the end of the day the criticism is valid

 

[GotSpin]

Oh look, Shady is defending the CCP again. Bizarre behaviour

 

[Uppercut]

Who cares?

China should be opposed. Them being opposed is good.

I remember when the Tories legalised gay marriage in the UK. I read a few posts on Facebook at the time saying they were only doing it to look good. Possibly true, maybe not from Cameron but definitely from some who supported it. But who cares, it was the right outcome.

Explore righteousness at your leisure but it doesn’t excuse evil, stop deflecting criticism of a horrific regime because at the end of the day the criticism is valid

It’s bizarre how doing the right thing for selfish reasons attracts so much more criticism than just doing a selfish thing. I think I’ve seen studies where people are much more likely to condemn ‘tainted’ altruistic acts than mildly morally wrong acts.

 

[Shady Slim]

Who cares?

China should be opposed. Them being opposed is good.

I remember when the Tories legalised gay marriage in the UK. I read a few posts on Facebook at the time saying they were only doing it to look good. Possibly true, maybe not from Cameron but definitely from some who supported it. But who cares, it was the right outcome.

Explore righteousness at your leisure but it doesn’t excuse evil, stop deflecting criticism of a horrific regime because at the end of the day the criticism is valid

well see it depends right, because just doing something to look good that is still the right thing to do in a vaccuum is one thing - criticising something so you look good to the vile racists (and leading to downstream racism against domestic chinese diaspora!!) while simultaneously also totally backing another country's apartheid is an entirely different story

for example with the one you gave, while the net good from the tories legalising gay marriage is unequivocal it does give cause to examine your government's support for regimes that still criminalise homosexuality, if indeed the british government does back any - that's where it gets a bit, hey, hang on, what's going on here then, and if they did continue to back regimes where homosexuality's criminalised (and i'm not saying they do, they might, i dunno), then you should be looking at that and demanding answers

Oh look, Shady is defending the CCP again. Bizarre behaviour

bro i'm just asking for consistency and integrity in foreign policy

 

[GotSpin]

well see it depends right, because just doing something to look good that is still the right thing to do in a vaccuum is one thing - criticising something so you look good to the vile racists (and leading to downstream racism against domestic chinese diaspora!!) while simultaneously also totally backing another country's apartheid is an entirely different story

for example with the one you gave, while the net good from the tories legalising gay marriage is unequivocal it does give cause to examine your government's support for regimes that still criminalise homosexuality, if indeed the british government does back any - that's where it gets a bit, hey, hang on, what's going on here then, and if they did continue to back regimes where homosexuality's criminalised (and i'm not saying they do, they might, i dunno), then you should be looking at that and demanding answers



bro i'm just asking for consistency and integrity in foreign policy

I think you're just missing the point though. The CCP should be opposed. They're a terrible regime

And stop playing the racist card

 

[Line and Length]

except here most of the boycotting countries have no moral leg to stand on here and the comparison between modern china and nazi germany is to my mind very inappropriate imho (not aimed at u specifically, all across the internet i have seen it being drawn

In 1936, Nazi Germany hadn't started invading other countries (unlike China and Tibet) and the human rights abuse of Jews hadn't reached the genocide stage. China's abuse of groups like the Uighurs is well known despite China's attempted cover-ups. I could go on but remember, I'm comparing today's China with the Germany of 1936 ... not what was to follow.

 

[Shady Slim]

I think you're just missing the point though. The CCP should be opposed. They're a terrible regime

And stop playing the racist card

your take on the ccp stands entirely independent of the hypocrisy of the australian government in fearmongering about china while backing literal apartheid regimes

and man it's borne out by empirical data that taking an anti-china foreign policy stance like our government has permits and fosters downstream racism against the domestic asian-australian population so if you're going to say a concern for that is playing the racist card go off but you're enabling racism

 

[GIMH]

Well you’re right, it’s an entirely different story.
Take the bad things down for being bad. Don’t take good things down because of the bad things.

 

[Shady Slim]

In 1936, Nazi Germany hadn't started invading other countries (unlike China and Tibet) and the human rights abuse of Jews hadn't reached the genocide stage. China's abuse of groups like the Uighurs is well known despite China's attempted cover-ups. I could go on but remember, I'm comparing today's China with the Germany of 1936 ... not what was to follow.

not to say there's nothing bad happening in xinjiang but a lot of the uighurs for sale report (largely funded by, you guessed it, defense contractors from america of course hehe) was debunked, and aspi (the group who released it), are essentially a front for those very same contractors

‘Uyghurs for sale’: a rigorous analysis or strategic disinformation? - Pearls and Irritations

A private citizen has debunked a think-tank’s claims of Uyghur forced labour. Media, human rights organisations and universities were MIA. Why? In early 2020, the Australian Strategic Policy Institute Limited (ASPI) made international headlines with the claim it had uncovered a systematic forced...

johnmenadue.com

now again that's not to say there's nothing bad happening in xinjiang but as i've said many times before there's to my knowledge nothing going on there that hasn't been committed by, endorsed by, backed by or conspicuously ignored when convenient by western countries

 

[Shady Slim]

Well you’re right, it’s an entirely different story.
Take the bad things down for being bad. Don’t take good things down because of the bad things.

but when the primary motivator behind the australian government's stance against china is very obviously throwing meat to us weapons contractors (who are, quite literally, probably responsible for the most death and destruction and human rights violations of any single coterie in the world right now), as well as domestic racists to court them, i really can't back it, especially when the data shows again it empowers citizens to do racisms of their own

 

[Line and Length]

your take on the ccp stands entirely independent of the hypocrisy of the australian government in fearmongering about china while backing literal apartheid regimes

and man it's borne out by empirical data that taking an anti-china foreign policy stance like our government has permits and fosters downstream racism against the domestic asian-australian population so if you're going to say a concern for that is playing the racist card go off but you're enabling racism

I can't agree with that point. Thinking Australians are able to differentiate between the abuse of human rights in China and the behaviour of Asian-Australians. Idiots like Jack van Tongeren are, thankfully, very thin on the ground.

 

[GIMH]

but when the primary motivator behind the australian government's stance against china is very obviously throwing meat to us weapons contractors (who are, quite literally, probably responsible for the most death and destruction and human rights violations of any single coterie in the world right now), as well as domestic racists to court them, i really can't back it, especially when the data shows again it empowers citizens to do racisms of their own

You’ll see no defence of US foreign policy from me but it at all whataboutery, because hey, genocide.

I daren’t ask about the data but I’d be surprised if it…no you know what, forget it

 

[Shady Slim]

when i get home tonight i will get the data out because i would like to agree with you both but i sadly cannot

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Doubt there's going to be any group orgies at these Olympics or people seeking asylum either.

 

[Spark]

but when the primary motivator behind the australian government's stance against china is very obviously throwing meat to us weapons contractors (who are, quite literally, probably responsible for the most death and destruction and human rights violations of any single coterie in the world right now), as well as domestic racists to court them, i really can't back it, especially when the data shows again it empowers citizens to do racisms of their own

here's one

Since 2011, over half of Syria’s pre-war population of 22 million has been forced to flee their homes in search of safety and opportunity, many of them more than once. Families still living in Syria are struggling to survive and meet their basic needs: 13.4 million people need humanitarian assistance, including 6.7 million who are internally displaced.

Amnesty has learned from prisoners who were detained there and released and former guards about what they describe as a calculated programme of extermination taking place in one of President Bashar al-Assad’s military prisons – Saydnaya, in Damascus. Here, they have told Amnesty, thousands of civilians considered opponents of the regime are systematically starved, deliberately dehumanised, mercilessly tortured and finally hanged in the utmost secrecy in the dead of night, 20 to 50 at a time. These witnesses have described executions and the conditions in the prison before December 2015 but they could be continuing.

 

[Spark]

not to say there's nothing bad happening in xinjiang but a lot of the uighurs for sale report (largely funded by, you guessed it, defense contractors from america of course hehe) was debunked, and aspi (the group who released it), are essentially a front for those very same contractors

‘Uyghurs for sale’: a rigorous analysis or strategic disinformation? - Pearls and Irritations

A private citizen has debunked a think-tank’s claims of Uyghur forced labour. Media, human rights organisations and universities were MIA. Why? In early 2020, the Australian Strategic Policy Institute Limited (ASPI) made international headlines with the claim it had uncovered a systematic forced...

johnmenadue.com

now again that's not to say there's nothing bad happening in xinjiang but as i've said many times before there's to my knowledge nothing going on there that hasn't been committed by, endorsed by, backed by or conspicuously ignored when convenient by western countries

that link is embarrassing and the paper it links to is straight up genocide-denial ****. ASPI is far from the only source documenting what is going on in xinjiang and i'm definitely not going to take the word of someone who describes themselves as anything but "western propaganda analyst" seriously, especially when such people have spent ten years greedily cheering on the mass slaughter of innocents as described in the last post

‘We’re a people destroyed’: why Uighur Muslims across China are living in fear

The long read: Gene A Bunin has spent the past 18 months talking to Uighur restaurant workers all over China. These conversations reveal how this Muslim minority feel the daily threat of arrest, detention and ‘re-education’

www.theguardian.com

When talking about the situation in Xinjiang, it is standard to use euphemisms. The most common by far is the word yoq, which means “gone” or “not around”. “Do you get what I’m saying?” a friend asked me once, as I tried to figure out what had happened to a person he was telling me about. “That guy is yoq. He’s got another home now.”

The phrase adem yoq (“everybody’s gone”) is the one I’ve heard the most this past year. It has been used to describe the absence of staff, clients and people in general. When referring to people who have been forced to return to their hometowns (for hometown arrest, camp or worse), it is typical to say that they “went back home”.

The concentration camps are not referred to as “concentration camps”, naturally. Instead, the people there are said to be occupied with “studying” (oqushta/öginishte) or “education” (terbiyileshte), or sometimes may be said to be “at school” (mektepte).

Likewise, people do not use words like “oppression” when talking about the overall situation in Xinjiang. Rather, they tend to say “weziyet yaxshi emes” (“the situation isn’t good”), or describe Xinjiang as being very “ching” (“strict”, “tight”).

Despite the euphemisms, there is no getting away from what is actually happening. It hit me just how unavoidable the topic was when, while chatting with an old friend in inner China, I made a genuine effort to avoid politics and talk about more normal or even mundane things. It proved impossible. When I asked him what he had done earlier that day, he brought up a political meeting that all the Uighurs in that city had to attend. When I asked him if he still tried to read books in his spare time, he told me that the police had cracked down on that, too, and that reading any book would invite unwanted attention. When I asked him about his aspirations for the future, he told me that, ideally, he would love to become a chef of Turkish food and open up his own restaurant, but, unfortunately, that act alone would get him jailed in Xinjiang, as the state continues to discourage and destroy all contact between the Uighurs and other Turkic and Muslim peoples abroad.

if i sound angry about this ****, it's because (1) genocide is bad and (2) the eagerness of white leftist types to jump all aboard the "assad did nothing wrong! china did nothing wrong!" train really shows that to a huge chunk of white western leftists, most people living outside the west are not real people and their countries are not real countries; the game is entirely the same game, just with colours reversed so to speak.

“Millions of Uighurs” were being held in camps, he told me, where they were being fed 15-year-old leftover rice and subjected to beatings. (Precise numbers are hard to verify, but witness testimonies have confirmed both poor nutrition and violence in the camps.) He said that the Uighurs in this inner-China city now had to attend political meetings, and that they might soon have to take a test on political subjects such as the 19th party congress. Those who didn’t pass would be sent back to Xinjiang.

but you know, maybe some anglo drip boomer who used to be a political staffer 50 years ago knows better.

 

[GIMH]

your take on the ccp stands entirely independent of the hypocrisy of the australian government in fearmongering about china while backing literal apartheid regimes

and man it's borne out by empirical data that taking an anti-china foreign policy stance like our government has permits and fosters downstream racism against the domestic asian-australian population so if you're going to say a concern for that is playing the racist card go off but you're enabling racism

This is absolute junk man.

Foreign policy has downstream impacts on elements of a population, not a new thing. But the logical extension of your posting is any regime should never be opposed because of the possible xenophobic or racist reaction.

There's people in England who still hate the Germans. Ergo, perhaps the Nazis shouldn't have been opposed? I doubt that's what you actually think, otherwise I'd put some heavy caveats in about disliking the 'good war' narrative around WW2. Alas my point is easy and clear. Got Spin is not enabling racism, it's utter junk to write that. The fact that racism is a byproduct of the CCP's rogue ways is deeply unfair and unsatisfactory. But the origin of this does not sit with someone deciding to oppose these monsters. Get a ****ing grip.