England (and Wales) gloom, doom and recriminations thread

[Gnske]

Alex Lees being reported to open in Windies with Crawley. With Yates and Sibley in reserve

Compton
Root
Carberry
Robson
Trott
Lyth
Jennings
Ali
Duckett
Stoneman
Roy
Hales
Denly
Burns
Hameed
Sibley
Crawley
Lees

I'm sure i'm forgetting cameos. But I hope this wheel never ends.

 

[Prince EWS]

Compton
Root
Carberry
Robson
Trott
Lyth
Jennings
Ali
Duckett
Stoneman
Roy
Hales
Denly
Burns
Hameed
Sibley
Crawley
Lees

I'm sure i'm forgetting cameos. But I hope this wheel never ends.

Leach had a crack. Averages 47 there too.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

On a similar note to the stories Spark posted above, Will MacPherson is reporting that mid-series Ollie Pope tried to personally arrange (and fund) flights for his county coach (Vikram Solanki, @sledger) to fly out to Australia because he was struggling so much and didn't feel supported by the ECB coaches.

 

[Gnske]

On a similar note to the stories Spark posted above, Will MacPherson is reporting that mid-series Ollie Pope tried to personally arrange (and fund) flights for his county coach (Vikram Solanki, @sledger) to fly out to Australia because he was struggling so much and didn't feel supported by the ECB coaches.

Jesus christ.

You can tell he needed some serious help with that offstump guard he was taking at Hobart.

 

[Immenso]

He could have flown me over to scratch out a middle-and-leg guard for him. Problem solved.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah, the Burns one seems by far the least significant. “Nah, not really" could just be shorthand for "yeah, but I'm not stressing out over it" and suggesting that the reason he went to get out first ball of the series is primarily because he hadn't been dwelling on that specific moment enough seems a stretch.

The overall picture is, er, bleak, though

That said,

sounds like it turned out to be ideal preparation for the rest of the tour

Geez look how skinny Johnny is in your avi

 

[TheJediBrah]

Have you seen him in the BBL? That's raw talent, although Hepburn would be disappointed that he's just banging 6s now.

Two 6's is better than one 9. Maths.

 

[Chubb]

On a similar note to the stories Spark posted above, Will MacPherson is reporting that mid-series Ollie Pope tried to personally arrange (and fund) flights for his county coach (Vikram Solanki, @sledger) to fly out to Australia because he was struggling so much and didn't feel supported by the ECB coaches.

I get why he might want that but at the same time it shouldn't be the international coach's job to fix somebody's technique. In the pre-Fletcher era I know this was a considerable issue for the players. Gooch, for example, is obviously a very good technical coach of batsmen but when he was with England he'd try to change how batsmen set up, backlift etc when they were with the squad. That is not work you should be doing ahead of a test match.

 

[Immenso]

clearly written as an ode to a revolving door selection strategy.

I think your mixing him up with another Yorkshire left-hander opener with the same initials? Lees has never had a go before.

 

[Immenso]

I get why he might want that but at the same time it shouldn't be the international coach's job to fix somebody's technique. In the pre-Fletcher era I know this was a considerable issue for the players. Gooch, for example, is obviously a very good technical coach of batsmen but when he was with England he'd try to change how batsmen set up, backlift etc when they were with the squad. That is not work you should be doing ahead of a test match.

But maybe , or even quite likely, it is the other way around.

England coaches want to 'fix; (e.g, change) his stupid technique. So, he felt unsupported and wanted to fly over his safety blanket who facilitated his terrible guard.

Just guessing ...

 

[Chubb]

But maybe , or even quite likely, it is the other way around.

England coaches want to 'fix; (e.g, change) his stupid technique. So, he felt unsupported and wanted to fly over his safety blanket who facilitated his terrible guard.

Just guessing ...

It's hard to strike a balance between letting someone do what feels comfortable and being "correct" but it does feel like current coaches are way too much in the do-what-works-for-you camp. How else to explain all the weird techniques around at the moment? And the obsession with the off stump guard. Nobody sane takes an offstump guard in club cricket.

 

[Immenso]

Interesting look at the pool based purely on (non-test) FC batting averages:

What would England’s batting line-up look like if selection was based purely on first-class averages?

Another away Ashes series has been lost and the post-series soul-searching is well under way despite there still being a Test to go.Sign up to bet365 to be entered into a draw for the chance to win a Wisden t-shirt of your choice, terms and conditions apply, more information here 18+...

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[HeathDavisSpeed]

I think your mixing him up with another Yorkshire left-hander opener with the same initials? Lees has never had a go before.

You maybe right (Lyth) but the main use of the link was because of the revolving door. How many different opening combinations have England had in the last 3 years. Crazy how they’ve not been able to find a single useful new opener since about Strauss’ retirement.

 

[Chubb]

You maybe right (Lyth) but the main use of the link was because of the revolving door. How many different opening combinations have England had in the last 3 years. Crazy how they’ve not been able to find a single useful new opener since about Strauss’ retirement.

Burns and Sibley looked like a solid answer for a year or so. Not world-beating, just respectable. But they got found out.

 

[Spark]

I get why he might want that but at the same time it shouldn't be the international coach's job to fix somebody's technique. In the pre-Fletcher era I know this was a considerable issue for the players. Gooch, for example, is obviously a very good technical coach of batsmen but when he was with England he'd try to change how batsmen set up, backlift etc when they were with the squad. That is not work you should be doing ahead of a test match.

You say that but we've literally just seen Aus coaches make a major adjustment to a cricketer's technique mid series with great success. Of course you still need to work on your technique at Test level, if anything it's the most important to work on your technique at that level because that's where any minor flaws will get exposed which may have gone unpunished at FC level.

 

[Shady Slim]

Compton
Root
Carberry

should never have needed to go beyond here. mistreated to the nth degree, would've killed for a man to show as much vertebra on this tour

 

[SteveNZ]

I think we can all agree Silverwood is toast. I'm sure many of us also sympathise with giving Taylor a position like that given what happened to him, but he clearly shouldn't be deciding on teams from the other side of the world.

Also thought skinfold tests weren't being done any more given there's been a lot of criticism about their use. IIRC the AFL has banned them.

They banned pre-draft skin folds.

And skin folds are a nonsense, anyway. Do we think we're such a high performance sport that body fat is the difference between success and failure? Be fit, absolutely. Have markers of fitness (beeps, yo-yos, 3km times, whatever) and certainly have them relevant to the skill, but to in a way shame someone because they're 18% or more, who gives a ****? If it was Bairstow, and he's a big fella, it didn't seem to be an issue in Sydney. And if it was Robinson, then by all means call him out on not being able to come back for spells and get through a test. You don't need calipers to ascertain that, unless you allow sport scientists to run amuck.

 

[Spark]

Yeah if it is Bairstow then he has a point. He's probably the fittest and most athletic bloke in the side, I don't think anyone else can hold a candle to him in terms of how much area he can cover in the outfield. You can compare him to someone like Burns who I think didn't go more than a session without some dreadful misfield or drop of one kind or another, just atrocious in the field.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah some bodies just don't drop the same kilos others do.

That's a shame for Pope tbh. He's the only batsman under 30 in the team who is a generational talent. His technique was fine until he started fiddling, just doesnt understand spin.

 

[Uppercut]

My guess is that Solanki works with Pope to find technical solutions, whereas the old England setup was hierarchical and prescriptive, because that was the culture of coaching at the time. That style was fine for fitness but very ill suited to batting technique where how the batsmen feels is crucial.

The current setup seems very hands-off, which the likes of Anderson probably appreciates after being messed around with adjustments early in his career. But Pope has experience of effective technical coaching at county level, and finds it very underwhelming.