*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[vandem]

Is CdG out of the reckoning completely? Might as well utilise him for the Aus ODIs if Mitchell is seen as test squad incumbent...

I assume de Grandhomme will go to Aussie for 3 x ODI and 1 x T20I short tour. Especially with Neesham fitness niggles. They will need all of the experienced non-test players to (1) have some name recognition for the Aussie crowds, and (2) assist the youngsters (probably Allen + Cleaver, perhaps McClure / Fletcher + Nathan Smith + Sears) in a tough ODI debut series.

 

[NZTailender]

Regardless of whether we draw or lose the Bangladesh deck I think this match as well as the India series has raised a few questions.

I feel like the WTC was the culmination of a match winning team at it's kind of 'end' almost. Watling's retired, CdG has fallen away from the Test side and Taylor is now retiring.

• At one point I had wondered about Kane's captaincy and it's potential burden, and whether or not Latham is a better choice. I don't think he is and Kane is the best guy for the job
• Watling and CdG were a great yin and yang. One could dig us out of a hole and the other could build a mountain over it in quick fashion. Blundell seems to be a completely different player and I don't think we can expect him to be Watling
• Is the bowling team succeeding because of Jurgensen, or in spite of him? We get worrying snapshots at times
• Do we actually do our homework? It's like the team got the cheat codes from other teams on how to bowl out the established players but when presented with a debutant or relative newbies we just bowl default Cricket Game deliveries and hope they get themselves out. See the new Bangladeshi players and Iyer
• Is Conway best served opening, or middle order? Same with Young and Ravindra
• Should we play Patel as a matter of course and get him to learn on all types of pitches? Australia don't drop Lyon because it looks like a green top, and he still produces the goods, and that comes from faith and investment

 

[Flem274*]

Hot take - when KW returns and The Boss gracefully retires after many years of loyal awesomeness, the likely XI is stronger than the WTC final XI (and this makes Bangladeshs current achievement all the more impressive).

Taylor, Watling and to a lesser extent CdG were all in steady decline with the bat. I'm not sure Watling had a single 50 since the big double.

That's why it was so crucial Jamieson and Conway hit the ground running. NZ needed a fresh injection of talent and they just parachuted in performing at world class level like kiwi Sundar's and Thakur's.

 

[kaetor]

You have to question how ready the team is for this match, almost the entire team hasn't played a match since the last India game in early December. The team itself isn't the issue I feel, it's a competitive side it we shouldn't be playing like this.

 

[Ghost]

You have to question how ready the team is for this match, almost the entire team hasn't played a match since the last India game in early December. The team itself isn't the issue I feel, it's a competitive side it we shouldn't be playing like this.

Almost feels like the attitude was “it’s just Bangladesh and we’re at home so we just have to turn up”

 

[Chubb]

You can't hit the doom klaxon for one bad performance against a Bangladesh side having one of their best test matches (and certainly their best test outside Asia).

 

[Moss]

Hot take - when KW returns and The Boss gracefully retires after many years of loyal awesomeness, the likely XI is stronger than the WTC final XI (and this makes Bangladeshs current achievement all the more impressive).

The middle order could do with a bit of tweaking for sure. For three consecutive tests the combination of Taylor, Nicholls, Blundell and Ravindra hasn’t really worked and they’ve tended to fall in a heap, or bat themselves into a hole. Barring Taylor’s retirement none of them are going to be dropped, but it’s quite clear that Latham, Conway, KW and Young are the four best test bats at the moment and NZ need all of them in the XI regularly.

Also feel the Rachin at no.7 should not be a thing beyond this series.

 

[bill8164]

The middle order could do with a bit of tweaking for sure. For three consecutive tests the combination of Taylor, Nicholls, Blundell and Ravindra hasn’t really worked and they’ve tended to fall in a heap, or bat themselves into a hole. Barring Taylor’s retirement none of them are going to be dropped, but it’s quite clear that Latham, Conway, KW and Young are the four best test bats at the moment and NZ need all of them in the XI regularly.

Also feel the Rachin at no.7 should not be a thing beyond this series.

So who's your top 6/7 in the SA series, genuinely curious?

 

[James]

So who's your top 6/7 in the SA series, genuinely curious?

I'd go down the route of:

Young
Latham
Williamson
Conway
Nicholls
Mitchell
WK Unknown
Jamieson
Wagner
Southee/Boult
Ajaz

 

[Howsie]

Obviously I’ve never been a fan of Tom Blundell but even the Wellington contingent on CW would have to agree if he doesn’t produce by the end of the summer he’s bbq chicken?

He’s a 31 going on 32 year old keeper who after this test will average in the 20’s with the bat.Yep, he gets the South African serious but he has to score runs by then.

Dane Cleaver is way to good to leave out and he’s done what the selectors wanted him to do by batting in the top 4. He’s all class and just because Blundell has been the understudy for 5 years behind Watling that doesn’t make him a better player then Cleaver now.

 

[Moss]

I'd go down the route of:

Young
Latham
Williamson
Conway
Nicholls
Mitchell
WK Unknown
Jamieson
Wagner
Southee/Boult
Ajaz

Yup this is pretty much the XI I’d go with, Rachin being batting cover for the top 5. Wouldn’t be averse to Kane swapping places with Conway - the latter seems to relish batting in the top 3 and Kane could be a much needed steadying influence in the middle order.

Not sure what to do with the wicketkeeping spot - best bet is for Blundell to move to 7, be told to play with freedom and try to rediscover some form. Cleaver must be in close consideration but would be harsh on Blundell who prior to the India tour had taken on different roles when asked with some success.

 

[Flem274*]

Obviously I’ve never been a fan of Tom Blundell but even the Wellington contingent on CW would have to agree if he doesn’t produce by the end of the summer he’s bbq chicken?

He’s a 31 going on 32 year old keeper who after this test will average in the 20’s with the bat.Yep, he gets the South African serious but he has to score runs by then.

Dane Cleaver is way to good to leave out and he’s done what the selectors wanted him to do by batting in the top 4. He’s all class and just because Blundell has been the understudy for 5 years behind Watling that doesn’t make him a better player then Cleaver now.

I think Blundell is a decent player but agreed with one correction - bbq chicken is actually good

 

[Ghost]

Blundell only averaging just over 5 with bat at a strike rate of 17 in the three test since taking over from Watling. Is he trying to be a like for like replacement rather than play his own game?

 

[Blain]

I don't think Blundell is up to it.. He got his 2 hundys in great fashion, but from then he's been very poor. And that's in all international cricket.

I would love Conway to take the gloves, but I think that's putting too much pressure on him. Siefert seems T20 focused, who I don't think is up to international standard in short form anyway. But has a decent record, hasn't played FC for 10 months. Fletcher for Canterbury, he's OK for them averaging 37, but I don't think he'd make the step up. Reece Young 2.0?

I would like to see Cleaver have a crack. Averaging 42, in form and exciting to watch. Will it happen? Na.

 

[Ghost]

Cleaver not in the CD squad for tomorrow’s Ford Trophy game. Maybe been given a call up...

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Cleaver not in the CD squad for tomorrow’s Ford Trophy game. Maybe been given a call up...

Expecting the birth of his first child

 

[NZTailender]

You can't hit the doom klaxon for one bad performance against a Bangladesh side having one of their best test matches (and certainly their best test outside Asia).

Yeah it's a bit much to suddenly go doom and gloom. Bangladesh played really well and we were extremely poor, not up to our usual standards.

I'll reserve panic stations when we start losing more matches than we win (although as far as the WTC goes....) over a sustained period of time - 2 years etc.

 

[NZTailender]

I think Blundell is a decent player but agreed with one correction - bbq chicken is actually good

I think Blundell is a decent player too but either as an opener or when he doesn't have the pressure of the world on him. You feel like the last 3 test matches in particular, for most of those innings he's come in after small collapses and felt the weight of the innings entirely on his shoulders. Batting at 6 or 7 though you're always going to run that risk so you've got to ask yourself will he get better in those situations or is he more of a pace on the ball type opening? He averaged 35 with the bat opening, including a century in Australia which is no mean feat, but for the first time in yonks we actually have a few people who could open the batting and I don't think he's top 2 in the country for that overall, but maybe he could do the job for a time.

I suspect NZ will keep the faith for the 2nd test so barring a double ton, I'd like to see Cleaver or Fletcher a run vs SA. I think asking Conway to keep is a surefire way to make sure we don't get the best out of him with the bat when really he's our 2nd best bat currently.

Going back a few posts, CdG loss is more pronounced because he was able to take the new ball at times and produce wobble and other handy effects with ball in hand which, much due respect to him, Mitchell can't, nor Ravindra (who is a different kettle of fish with the ball anyway). We've lost a bit of balance in our side which makes us slightly less flexible.

 

[straw man]

Agree with all that.

Blundell batted with such a clear head and nothing-to-lose mentality against Australia for that century, mindset looks completely different now he's the incumbent. Though he would have also benefited from being new and not having been analysed by opposition bowlers yet - full length to get him caught on the crease is the obvious attack. If he continues to fail then yeah Cleaver.

CDG just had the magical knack for wickets when nothing is happening, which is exactly what NZ needed this test. His batting had declined substantially but his bowling magic is difficult to replace.

I don't mind what NZ have done in trying to slip Ravindra into the side down the order, but it may take a while to see the benefits as with KW. If you asked me who is more likely score test runs tomorrow though, I would say Mitchell.

 

[Days of Grace]

I think the selectors have painted themselves into a corner by thinking that all four seamers are undroppable. Because of this, Ajaz will hardly get a game and Ravindra will be shoehorned into batting at no.6/no.7 and bowling 20 overs in a test, neither of which he should be doing long-term. Mitchell will probably make more runs than Ravindra at no..6 but he can't play because of the problem I underlined in the first sentence. The best balance for the side has Mitchell batting at no.6 and performing the role as 4th seamer. Ajaz plays. One of Southee/Boult/Jameson misses out. Wagner plays because you need his hard yards.

The problem will probably be solved once Wagner retires but that in itself creates a massive hole. He is irreplaceable.