Best team since Waugh/ Ponting’s Australia?

[subshakerz]

For a SENA team to "conquer" the subcontinent all they have to really do is win in India. BD and Sri Lanka are usually pretty weak, comparatively, and often rely on extreme pitch-doctoring to be competitive.

Whereas for India to "conquer" SENA they have England, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand too which are all usually pretty strong teams. So it's a lot harder for India than it would be for South Africa

What? Doesnt make sense. India may be the biggest challenge but each country is its own challenge. You wouldnt say someone has conquered the subcontinent if they beat India and lose to Sri Lanka and BD.

The goal for any no. 1 team is to consistently win away series as much as possible, or at least not lose.

And the SA and Eng sides that India faced recently are perhaps the weakest versions of these teams in 20 years, while the Pakistan and Sri Lanka teams that SA beat were at least reasonably tough competition. So its not like India have to accomplish too much. Thus far, India have only won in Australia out of the SENA countries.

 

[TheJediBrah]

What? Doesnt make sense. India may be the biggest challenge but each country is its own challenge. You wouldnt say someone has conquered the subcontinent if they beat India and lose to Sri Lanka and BD.

I'm talking about difficulty. For a SENA team beating India in India is a massive challenge. The other ones nowhere near as much.

 

[Spark]

You wouldnt say someone has conquered the subcontinent if they beat India and lose to Sri Lanka and BD.

How many times has this actually happened? England in the early 2010s, maybe?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

For a SENA team to "conquer" the subcontinent all they have to really do is win in India. BD and Sri Lanka are usually pretty weak, comparatively, and often rely on extreme pitch-doctoring to be competitive.

Whereas for India to "conquer" SENA they have England, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand too which are all usually pretty strong teams. So it's a lot harder for India than it would be for South Africa

Beating Pakistan is very hard though (whether in UAE or if they return to Pakistan). Sri Lanka were hard to beat at home from 1997-2017 due to Murali, then Herath and a quality batting lineup.

 

[subshakerz]

How many times has this actually happened? England in the early 2010s, maybe?

Yes, England beat India but lost in UAE and drew in Sri Lanka. You cant say they conquered the subcontinent.

 

[subshakerz]

I'm talking about difficulty. For a SENA team beating India in India is a massive challenge. The other ones nowhere near as much.

SA had to contend with reasonably strong Pakistan and Sri Lankan sides though during their reign, along with India.

 

[sunilz]

SA had to contend with reasonably strong Pakistan and Sri Lankan sides though during their reign, along with India.

SA contended SL by not touring there between 06 to 13. Their victory in 14 was against a side that was beaten by both IND and PAK , 1 year later.

 

[subshakerz]

SA contended SL by not touring there between 06 to 13. Their victory in 14 was against a side that was beaten by both IND and PAK , 1 year later.

Irrelevant. They still beat them.

 

[Flem274*]

There's a bit of pretending Pakistan don't exist going on here. They were #1 as recently as 2017ish. I know that ranking lasted as long as it took CdG to take 6fer on debut against them, but they were and are very solid, especially at home.

 

[sunilz]

Irrelevant. They still beat them.

No , it isn't irrelevant. SL side which SA beat wasn't strong as you claimed earlier otherwise they wouldn't have lost to both IND and PAK 1 year later.

 

[Flem274*]

SA contended SL by not touring there between 06 to 13. Their victory in 14 was against a side that was beaten by both IND and PAK , 1 year later.

bro we've had indian fans dredging up results from 2009 and splicing the 2014 batting with the 2021 bowling, i think you can go a little easy on SA.

 

[OverratedSanity]

There's a bit of pretending Pakistan don't exist going on here. They were #1 as recently as 2017ish. I know that ranking lasted as long as it took CdG to take 6fer on debut against them, but they were and are very solid, especially at home.

Always toured England well too but seemed to get much flatter decks than India for some reason. Dreadfully embarassing in Aus/SA tho.

 

[sunilz]

bro we've had indian fans dredging up results from 2009 and splicing the 2014 batting with the 2021 bowling, i think you can go a little easy on SA.

Bro it is you only who is obsessed with IND's performance in NZ. Rest of us are fully aware of our performance in NZ.

 

[Flem274*]

Bro it is you only who is obsessed with IND's performance in NZ. Rest of us are fully aware of our performance in NZ.

we're not discussing that here champ, we're discussing the goalposts shifting you and your blow in mates do when it comes to what counts when comparing Kohli's India with Smith's South Africa.

Do Australia get Michael Clarke, Ryan Harris and Ashes Johnson mixed with 2017 Smith and 2021 Cummins?

 

[subshakerz]

No , it isn't irrelevant. SL side which SA beat wasn't strong as you claimed earlier otherwise they wouldn't have lost to both IND and PAK 1 year later.

I said they were reasonably strong with Sanga, Jaya, Mathews and Herath. Certainly not weak to claim that beating them doesnt count.

 

[sunilz]

we're not discussing that here champ, we're discussing the goalposts shifting you and your blow in mates do when it comes to what counts when comparing Kohli's India with Smith's South Africa.

Do Australia get Michael Clarke, Ryan Harris and Ashes Johnson mixed with 2017 Smith and 2021 Cummins?

Go ahead and clear for all of us what constitutes Kohli's India and Smith's SA.

Atleast none of us bother to call a side great that struggles to beat Bangladesh at home and has pathetic 5/40 , W/L ratio against AUS/SA since 90s.

Imagine having the courage to lump KW NZ(yes you did this earlier) side in this discussion when they haven't won test series against both AUS/SA since 90s.

 

[Flem274*]

Go ahead and clear for all of us what constitutes Kohli's India and Smith's SA.

Atleast none of us bother to call a side great that struggles to beat Bangladesh at home and has pathetic 5/40 , W/L ratio against AUS/SA since 90s.

Imagine having the courage to lump KW NZ(yes you did this earlier) side in this discussion when they haven't won test series against both AUS/SA since 90s.

probs the teams they captained bud. my favourite kohli india is the one where the middle order can't bat but the fast bowling is pornographic and ashwin never plays. it's by far the most fun.

and lol it did not take you long to bring up nz. tom latham's nz should apologise to the nation on national television for this disgrace, and i don't really care about results from 2004 when discussing KW's nz funnily enough, unless the Indian Blow in Society (IBS) will permit me to drag back up players from that era like you'll probably do eventually if i keep fishing.

 

[subshakerz]

Just to summarize the tactics from Kohli team supporters in the thread:

- Hype up India's home record to the nth degree

- Suggest India's away record is almost as good as SA, when officially they have only won in three countries so far (Aus, WI, Sri Lanka)

- Pretend SA were weak at home despite only losing two series in their entire time in their reign and zero away

- Be hypercritical in dissecting SA's away record while ignoring India's own landslide defeats in NZ and England, and loss to SA

- Ignore any middle order issue for India while suggesting SA's batters benefitted from easy runs

- Ignore actual player-player comparisons of the the two teams in question

 

[Xix2565]

So far the tactics from Kohli team supporters in the thread:

- Hype up India's home record to the nth degree

- Suggest India's away record is almost as good as SA, when officially they have only won in three countries so far (Aus, WI, Sri Lanka)

- Pretend SA were weak at home despite only losing two series in their entire time in their reign and zero away

- Be hypercritical in dissecting SA's away record while ignoring India's own landslide defeats in NZ and England, and loss to SA

- Ignore any middle order issue for India while suggesting SA's batters benefitted from easy runs

- Ignore actual player-player comparisons of the the two teams in question

Contextless arguments don't make a very good point, and you've not made a point yet other than you think SA's away results are too good without adding any context for why.

 

[OverratedSanity]

- Hype up India's home record to the nth degree

There is no hyping up of this ftr. It is the most insanely dominant run of results any team has had at home. By quite a long way. This has to count for something when were making comparisons of teams.