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Best team since Waugh/ Ponting’s Australia?

Best team?

  • Total voters
    84
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Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
sunilz said:
Mitchell Johnson the Eng/SA destroyer was humiliated in UAE in 2014 just 6 months afterwards ?

I bet had Johnson played in 40s/50s , these CW posters would be telling us , how he would have smashed every Asian side .
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Johnson was actually really really good in that series. Misbah and Younis just made a very conscious decision to not attack him, at all, and be incredibly cautious against him, and the pitches meant he couldn't just blast them out if they refused to play a shot against him. He ended up going at like 1.5 rpo an over across both games.

He was let down by the lack of pressure at the other end more than anything else. There was nothing wrong with his bowling.
 
sunilz

sunilz

International Regular
Spark said:
Johnson was actually really really good in that series. Misbah and Younis just made a very conscious decision to not attack him, at all, and be incredibly cautious against him, and the pitches meant he couldn't just blast them out if they refused to play a shot against him. He ended up going at like 1.5 rpo an over across both games.

He was let down by the lack of pressure at the other end more than anything else. There was nothing wrong with his bowling.
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I agree with what you said. But he couldn't blow away PAK in UAE like he did to ENG/SA 6 months ago ?
Why do certain CW posters think same won't happen to other good players from 40s/50s who would tour Asia for 1st time against a decent side ?
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
sunilz said:
I agree with what you said. But he couldn't blow away PAK in UAE like he did to ENG/SA 6 months ago ?
Why do certain CW posters think same won't happen to other good players from 40s/50s who would tour Asia for 1st time against a decent side ?
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What it demonstrates that bowling is a team effort ultimately, not an individual one, and weak links in an attack can't be for fully. On the other end, good partnership bowling and pressure bowling can take wickets at the other end.
 
Salamuddin

Salamuddin

International Debutant
subshakerz said:
No amount of home wins can take away the fact that this Kohli side will regularly collapse when faced with pressure on sporting wickets, as they have done repeatedly.


SA under Smith never folded so pathetically as India did in NZ, or lose 4 tests in a series. They were a tougher team to beat. Even when Australia beat them at home, they put up a fight.

Under Kohli, the team is good for bullying at home and beating weakened sides away. They are a really good side but with glaring weaknesses.
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Sa got rolled at home twice by margins of over 150 runs to a moderate Australia side in 2009. I mean Johnson Siddle Hilfenhaus and Andrew McDonald isn’t exactly Ambrose Walsh bishop and Patterson. They got beaten by an innings by England at home in 09-10 and could only get a draw.
They got rolled by a average India attack in 2010 in bowler friendly conditions.
They got rolled again for 96 by Australia at home in 2011.

They couldn’t win a test series across 3 visits to the subcontinent between 2008 and 2014 - considering they are being touted as vastly superior to Kohlis India of 2015-21: seems like a benchmark they should have cleared.

And their series win in Australia in 2011-12 was hugely fortuitous. Rain probably denied Australia a win in the first test and an injury to James Pattinson a win the second.


SA were undoubtedly an atvg side between o8-14 just as Kohlis side were between 2015-21 but let’s not gloss over their failings and pretend they are vastly better.
They couldn’t beat India in 2010 across a home and away series yet we are led to believe they are decidedly better than Kohlis team - doesn’t stack up.
 
sunilz

sunilz

International Regular
Spark said:
What it demonstrates that bowling is a team effort ultimately, not an individual one, and weak links in an attack can't be for fully. On the other end, good partnership bowling and pressure bowling can take wickets at the other end.
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It also demonstrates that success in one condition is not the surety of success in other conditions also.

Take for eg. Gillespie , who won AUS a series in IND in 04 but for some reason was very poor in ENG in 05.
Or another eg. Pujara who won IND series in AUS in 18/19 but can't buy run anywhere else.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
sunilz said:
What was the reason? McGrath's absence.(I don't remember).
But he didn't need McGrath to bulldoze IND in 04 series. He was far superior to McGrath.
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The reason was that he was completely cooked and his body had basically given up on him.
 
PaulLennon

PaulLennon

U19 Cricketer
centurymaker said:
Useless hypothetical discussions.

SA was the best team overall post 2008-2014.
India was also good from 2007-10 and England were too from 2010-12. But overall SA were more or less the best team from 2008-14.

And since 2016, India has been the best team overall. NZ and Aus have had their moments as well but India has been more or less the best team since 16.

SA had a great away record but only a decent home record. India has a perfect home record and very good away record and have achieved more, even though -on paper- may not be as strong as that SA side was.

Seriously there's nothing more to add outside of this. These are the only facts. Rest is all hypothetical bull**** and means nothing.
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2015 onwards - SL win and SA's first overseas loss in years (and that was a good SA team with Steyn, ABDV, Amla et al)
 
PaulLennon

PaulLennon

U19 Cricketer
centurymaker said:
Useless hypothetical discussions.

SA was the best team overall post 2008-2014.
India was also good from 2007-10 and England were too from 2010-12. But overall SA were more or less the best team from 2008-14.

And since 2016, India has been the best team overall. NZ and Aus have had their moments as well but India has been more or less the best team since 16.

SA had a great away record but only a decent home record. India has a perfect home record and very good away record and have achieved more, even though -on paper- may not be as strong as that SA side was.

Seriously there's nothing more to add outside of this. These are the only facts. Rest is all hypothetical bull**** and means nothing.
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even on paper, the india team is super strong.

sa had amla, abdv, kallis, smith, steyn and philander as great players. faf, morkel, prince, boucher were good. duminy was ok. rest were scrubs (spinners, 3rd pacer, 2nd opener etc).

ind has kohli, bumrah, ashwin, jadeja as great players. but ishant, shami, umesh, rohit, rahane, pujara, pant, bhuvi, kuldeep. siraj, sundar, shardul, saha, jayant yadav, amit mishra, dhawan, vijay, pandya etc have also had decent contributions in the run post 2015.
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

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sunilz said:
What was the reason? McGrath's absence.(I don't remember).
But he didn't need McGrath to bulldoze IND in 04 series. He was far superior to McGrath.
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He was a completely different bowler. It was clear as early as the warm-up white ball games prior to the Ashes in 2005 that something wasn't right. He was bowling horribly, 15ks slower and all over the shop, never should have been picked to play in a Test on that tour but he had his previous exploits backing him. Funny how quickly a bowlers rhythm can render them unrecognisable.

Anyway, Gillespie (and probably most fast bowlers) would always prefer to bowl in England, and be more effective there, than in India.
 
M

ma1978

International Debutant
Lot of.BS theoretical speculation

The question asked was a relative one

And it’s not up for debate that the Indian team has been more successful than the SA team. It’s uselessly theoretical to argue which was better

none of this is to suggest there are not flaws to the India team (or the SA team).
 
0

_00_deathscar

International Regular
Spark said:
What it demonstrates that bowling is a team effort ultimately, not an individual one, and weak links in an attack can't be for fully. On the other end, good partnership bowling and pressure bowling can take wickets at the other end.
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I’ll keep saying it till the cows come home. This Indian bowling lineup is amazing as a team.
 
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