Best team since Waugh/ Ponting’s Australia?

[Apex Predator]

South Africa has couple of home series defeat under Smith... It's tight but I'll go with Kohli here as he most likely will have his elusive series win in SA.

 

[Spark]

Who said current side would destroy peak AUS in AUS ? I thought we were discussing Asian conditions.

Deathscar definitely wasn't just restricting his claims to merely Indian conditions. Obviously the historic Aus side was very much neutered in India, no one would expect that to change.

That's before we get to the idea that this current 2019-2021 Indian side would have challenged peak WI in all conditions. That's just... yeah, no.

 

[centurymaker]

Sure I can accept that India would be favoured in India, but Australia in Australia on those pitches is completely different. You needed big first innings runs to be at all competitive and this Indian side is just not set up for that.

Like, that Australia side faced really good cricket teams in Australia and destroyed them. The only ones who put up a decent fight did so... on the back of big first innings runs. You know, the sort of thing you can't put together if you don't have a functional middle order.

India have often got big totals in Aus, including in 2014/15 as well as 2018/19. Only this time around in 2020/21 they didn't quite get there.

And guess what? Kohli wasn't around most of this series but in that one game he played, he looked set for a big 100. And Pujara faced more balls than anyone in Sydney and Gabba. He got 3 significant 50+ scores in the last two games! And Rahane scored that match winning 100 at MCG.

So where are you getting the idea that India's middle order is not good enough in Australian conditions??

It is more than good enough to rock up on flatter Aussie pitches and score big runs or score big enough runs to give bowlers a decent chance to win!

 

[sunilz]

Deathscar definitely wasn't just restricting his claims to merely Indian conditions. Obviously the historic Aus side was very much neutered in India, no one would expect that to change.

That's before we get to the idea that this current 2019-2021 Indian side would have challenged peak WI in all conditions. That's just... yeah, no.

Let him clarify. I don't think he is stupid enough to claim in all conditions with middle order averaging in 20s.

 

[Spark]

India have often got big totals in Aus, including in 2014/15 as well as 2018/19. Only this time around, they didn't. And guess what Kohli wasn't around in most of 2020/21 series and in that one game he played, he looked set for a big 100. And Pujara faced more balls than anyone in Sydney and Gabba. He scored 3 50+ scores in the last two games! And Rahane scored that match winning 100 at MCG.

So where are you getting the idea that India's middle order is bad in Australian conditions??

It is more than good enough to rock up on flatter Aussie pitches and score big runs or score big enough runs to give bowlers a chance to win!

You understand the meaning of the word "current", yes? I could not care less what Kohli did in 2014/15. I'm talking about the Kohli of now, who hasn't made a score of real substance in two and a half years, and the Pujara and Rahane of now, whom everyone seems to want dropped.

Let him clarify. I don't think he is stupid enough to claim in all conditions with middle order averaging in 20s.

Yeah that's why I was so confused.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Who said current side would destroy peak AUS in AUS ? I thought we were discussing Asian conditions.

this was the original post:

I’d also back the current team (keyword is team, not 3 players) to beat 90s/00s Aussies and 70s/80s Windies away.

I'm assuming by "away" he means in Australia/West Indies, which is an insane claim

If he means in India then not a crazy statement at all

 

[TheJediBrah]

TIL I am a South African.

Some guy "Anil" has somehow voted for all 3

 

[Spark]

Some guy "Anil" has somehow voted for all 3

All 4 actually

 

[Xix2565]

I like how the current crop of Indian bowlers are both somehow great but not good enough to put Waugh/Ponting's Australia under pressure in Aus. Overrating batting a bit too much here IMO.

 

[sunilz]

I think certain Indian posters need to be more realistic in their assessment. We got destroyed in swinging conditions not so long ago. I feel we are better than SA because SA teams underachieved. But for Gods sake don't lump our side with AUS/WI .

 

[Spark]

I like how the current crop of Indian bowlers are both somehow great but not good enough to put Waugh/Ponting's Australia under pressure in Aus. Overrating batting a bit too much here IMO.

Early 00s Australian conditions were principally about batting. They're not comparable to what bowling conditions are like right now across the world, including in Australia; there's no way you'd get pitches with as much consistent seam movement as you have had in the last two summers. Scoreboard pressure took a lot of wickets.

If you weren't pushing 400 in the first innings on those pitches you were in serious trouble. Even mid-300s was usually not enough.

 

[Teja.]

I like how the current crop of Indian bowlers are both somehow great but not good enough to put Waugh/Ponting's Australia under pressure in Aus. Overrating batting a bit too much here IMO.

It depends when the series is played. Early-Mid 00s Australian pitches were disgracefully flat and I'd only really back Bumrah to replicate the same level of success if the series is played on those pitches. The Indian batting order loved batting on those pitches as well and piled on the runs there.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Current Indian side would be brutally destroyed on both those tours. Ganguly's side would be more likely to compete (and they did compete against a McGrath-less team in 2003). No matter how good you think current Indian bowlers are they'd be defending 100 with this line-up v McGrath/Gillespie or WI quicks of the 80s

Early-Mid 00s Australian pitches were disgracefully flat

rubbish. Mid-late 2010s were though

 

[centurymaker]

You understand the meaning of the word "current", yes? I could not care less what Kohli did in 2014/15. I'm talking about the Kohli of now, who hasn't made a score of real substance in two and a half years, and the Pujara and Rahane of now, whom everyone seems to want dropped.



Yeah that's why I was so confused.

I would still back the same middle order for Australian conditions but not for England and NZ type of conditions and probably not for Indian conditions either.

So they would still give the ATG Australian side a tough fight in Australian conditions.

 

[Spark]

Current Indian side would be brutally destroyed on both those tours. Ganguly's side would be more likely to compete (and they did compete against a McGrath-less team in 2003). No matter how good you think current Indian bowlers are they'd be defending 100 with this line-up v McGrath/Gillespie or WI quicks of the 80s

rubbish. Mid-late 2010s were though

They weren't as flat as that, but they were certainly still very friendly for good batsmen. **** batsmen of course got found out.

 

[TheJediBrah]

They weren't as flat as that, but they were certainly still very friendly for good batsmen. **** batsmen of course got found out.

"very friendly for good batsmen" = "disgracefully flat"

 

[TheJediBrah]

I think certain Indian posters need to be more realistic in their assessment. We got destroyed in swinging conditions not so long ago. I feel we are better than SA because SA teams underachieved. But for Gods sake don't lump our side with AUS/WI .

sunilz the voice of reason, what even is this timeline

 

[Xix2565]

Early 00s Australian conditions were principally about batting. They're not comparable to what bowling conditions are like right now across the world, including in Australia; there's no way you'd get pitches with as much consistent seam movement as you have had in the last two summers. Scoreboard pressure took a lot of wickets.

If you weren't pushing 400 in the first innings on those pitches you were in serious trouble. Even mid-300s was usually not enough.

If we're comparing teams across eras Kohli's India have put up scores of 700+ and 600+ in flat conditions. I don't buy that the past few years of **** form from GMOI means they can't score runs. And this still ignores Indian bowling being good enough to not let teams rack up big scores consistently.

 

[Teja.]

It's weird to see people put a constant disclaimer that McGrath was not present whenever mentioning the 03 series. Obviously that was important but Sachin was injured with his tennis elbow issues and didn't play most of the 2004/05 India series as well yet you don't see people constantly specifying that it was a 'Sachin-less India' that Australia beat.

The fixation is a bit weird.

 

[Xix2565]

It depends when the series is played. Early-Mid 00s Australian pitches were disgracefully flat and I'd only really back Bumrah to replicate the same level of success if the series is played on those pitches. The Indian batting order loved batting on those pitches as well and piled on the runs there.

And somehow this Indian team can't take advantage of dead pitches? That's my question to the rest tbh, not just you.