Best team since Waugh/ Ponting’s Australia?

[Kilowatt]

Indian bowling line-up is several levels above SA's.







South Africa have one good (great!) bowler to compete with India in Indian conditions. He might have won them a match of his own bowling in the past but that team didn't have to fear getting blown away by Indian bowlers in return. That will change when they face Kohli's India.

If you want to era adjust, then don't conveniently forget to apply that to the Indian middle order too, which has produced some mammoth away performances in this era itself (Kohli (SA/Eng) and Pujara (Aus)).

And yes, SA did win more away but they also lost more home matches. If winning at home is so easy then losing at home should result in an even greater mark-down than an away loss.

 

[centurymaker]

Kohli's India have achieved more then Smith's SA IMO but Smith's team would win in any conditions most times barring India.

Awta.

South Africa won in Australia & England but then lost at 'home' to both Aus and Eng. They also didn't win any series in India or UAE against Pakistan.

SA were not losing any series away but they were losing at home and were drawing a no. of series at home & away. Reason their success gets highlighted is because they were quite strong away from home.

South Africa = Good Home Record + Very Good Away Record

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India, meanwhile, have 100% home record and are winning almost everywhere around the world as well!

India = Perfect Home Record + Almost Very Good Away Record.

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It's clear that the Indian team has achieved MORE, even though they may not be as good as that SA side man to man!

 

[Xix2565]

Picked both SA and India, and favouring India here.

SNIP

When we lose, we lose big huh.

 

[Test fan]

Smith Southafrica tean lose 2 test series a home which is wrose than losing away test series . Smith team win ratio 1.83 where Virat team win ratio 2.5 .

 

[sunilz]

Steyn + philander + Morkel would never win you a Test series in Asia considering record of last 2 players in Asia. Steyn might win you a test match because he is awesome.

 

[Xix2565]

The Indian bowling attack is obviously world class right now but test batting standards are probably at their lowest as well. They wouldn’t be blasting through lineups as often with much more pressure on a middle order that’s pretty **** right now too

I think in general the bowling has gotten so much better in recent times that batters in general can't handle it very well. Hard to suddenly say every single batter is **** now and then ignore any part bowlers with modern day advantages play in making them look like ****. The two shouldn't be treated as seperate.

 

[TheJediBrah]

But that SA team was otherwise only a better spinner short of being a totally complete, ATG-tier side. Imagine peak Steyn/Philander/Morkel on today's pitches; that string of sub-50 scores they reduced opposition scores too would be very common today. Peak Steyn with the wobble-seamer on spicy pitches in particular = yikes. Bloke might have averaged in the teens.

Steyn was Steyn but both Philander and Morkel are a bit overrated IMO. True they probably would have feasted on the jucier wickets against modern batting line-ups

 

[TheJediBrah]

Kohli's India have achieved more then Smith's SA IMO but Smith's team would win in any conditions most times barring India.

Smith's team probably underachieved whereas current India have overachieved based on their teams on-paper. Also probably fair to say Smith's SA had stronger opposition across the board.

I’d also back the current team (keyword is team, not 3 players) to beat 90s/00s Aussies and 70s/80s Windies away.

lmao wut

 

[Spark]

Steyn was Steyn but both Philander and Morkel are a bit overrated IMO. True they probably would have feasted on the jucier wickets against modern batting line-ups

Yeah that's kind of what I mean. Their weaknesses would be much less important in an era where most pitches offer quite a lot to pacers and, just as importantly, old ball bowling outside of reverse swing and express pace has undergone a quiet revolution in the last decade.

 

[Spark]

Also are people listening to themselves? Kohli has barely scored a run in ages, everyone wants Pujara and Rahane dropped, and the same people are saying that this side would knock over Waugh's Australia or the peak WI sides? Hello?

Sides were competitive here in Aus at times in those eras by putting on a healthy first innings score and having something substantial to defend. Something this Indian side has not done consistently since 2018/19.

 

[Shri]

i mean lets not put on tinted glasses here

sa always laid out spicy pitches when they played strong teams at home so i think philander and steyn would have been awesome like they were before but i don't see them significantly better at home

 

[sunilz]

Also are people listening to themselves? Kohli has barely scored a run in ages, everyone wants Pujara and Rahane dropped, and the same people are saying that this side would knock over Waugh's Australia or the peak WI sides? Hello?

Sides were competitive here in Aus at times in those eras by putting on a healthy first innings score and having something substantial to defend. Something this Indian side has not done consistently since 2018/19.

Warne, Gilchrist and Langer all were useless against IND. Hayden was useless when he faced competetent spinners from both ends in IND. Ponting was useless in Asia .
So, yes current Indian side would hammer Aus 90s side .

Ponting averaged around 25 in 4 tests he played in Asia against high quality spin bowling in 2004

 

[TheJediBrah]

Also are people listening to themselves? Kohli has barely scored a run in ages, everyone wants Pujara and Rahane dropped, and the same people are saying that this side would knock over Waugh's Australia or the peak WI sides? Hello?

Indian brahs smoking crack ITT lol

 

[Spark]

Warne, Gilchrist and Langer all were useless against IND. Hayden was useless when he faced competetent spinners from both ends in IND. Ponting was useless in Asia .
So, yes current Indian side would hammer Aus 90s side .

Ponting averaged around 25 in 4 tests he played in Asia against high quality spin bowling.

Sure I can accept that India would be favoured in India, but Australia in Australia on those pitches is completely different. You needed big first innings runs to be at all competitive and this Indian side is just not set up for that.

Like, that Australia side faced really good cricket teams in Australia and destroyed them. The only ones who put up a decent fight did so... on the back of big first innings runs. You know, the sort of thing you can't put together if you don't have a functional middle order.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

One thing that South Africa and India have in common is being knocked out of ICC World competitions by NZ...

 

[Spark]

i mean lets not put on tinted glasses here

sa always laid out spicy pitches when they played strong teams at home so i think philander and steyn would have been awesome like they were before but i don't see them significantly better at home

It's more away that things would be different; their already very strong record would if anything get stronger.

 

[sunilz]

It's more away that things would be different; their already very strong record would if anything get stronger.

Which would be compensated by them even losing more at home because now most of the teams have competent pace attack.

 

[Teja.]

i mean lets not put on tinted glasses here

sa always laid out spicy pitches when they played strong teams at home so i don't think philander and steyn would have been awesome like they were before but i don't see them significantly better at home

Yeah, the thread debate aside, SA pitches for India have been extremely bowler friendly since the mid 00s so I don't really think that is much of a factor between the teams.

I'm not sure where I'd rank the teams. The SA team looks by far the strongest on paper but in reality they never really established any degree of dominance and I feel that they were considerably less intimidating than the sum of their parts whenever India or Australia faced them at home. They just felt like they were always operating at 85%.

An Indian team with Zaheer only playing half a test and no other bowlers averaging anywhere close to 30 in the recent past matched them every bit in 2010/11 in SA and much more mediocre Indian sides have competed strongly there despite having no right to so I'm probably biased in my assessment.

They're probably still the best side but I'm a bit surprised at how strongly people rate that side.

 

[sunilz]

Sure I can accept that India would be favoured in India, but Australia in Australia on those pitches is completely different. You needed big first innings runs to be at all competitive and this Indian side is just not set up for that.

Like, that Australia side faced really good cricket teams in Australia and destroyed them. The only ones who put up a decent fight did so... on the back of big first innings runs. You know, the sort of thing you can't put together if you don't have a functional middle order.

Who said current side would destroy peak AUS in AUS ? I thought we were discussing Asian conditions.

 

[honestbharani]

So Indian posters to vote India and everyone else South Africa, could have probably predicted that. As long as England don't get any love it's acceptable

TIL I am a South African.