Is Ashwin an ATG spinner / player?

[subshakerz]

Ashwin is a bit of a dick but he's usually a dick about the right stuff which I greatly appreciate. Like him exposing pitch discourse double standards with facts and logic.

That interview was Ashwin was interesting. Didnt expect a guy with over 400 wickets to sound so insecure.

 

[Victor Ian]

I really dont think you have seen enough of him to make either of those judgements. I am saying this as someone who has seen so much more of him. That is all.

That is completely fair. My first impression is that he's a wanker, but I had the same thing with gandhi.

 

[Xix2565]

With a doubt, if Kohli had been captain, India would have lost in 20/21 in Australia. India under his brand of high-pressure captaincy are unbeatable at home, but away are only capable of beating sides that are noticeably weakened. His team repeatedly buckled in key pressure moments in SA 2018, Eng 2018 and NZ 2019 and most recently in the WTC final which in part is a product of keeping his teammates on edge as his own style is so high intensity.

That 20/21 series was a testament to Rahane and dressing room reports from the time noted that the team were considerably more relaxed than usual.

This is a nonsensical take to be honest. With Kohli captaining, Australia needed the luckiest day of their lives to salvage a pink ball Test where their best bat was Tim Paine. We could've quite possibly won 3-0 if things worked like you seem to believe, against a stronger bowling and batting lineup.

 

[subshakerz]

This is a nonsensical take to be honest. With Kohli captaining, Australia needed the luckiest day of their lives to salvage a pink ball Test where their best bat was Tim Paine. We could've quite possibly won 3-0 if things worked like you seem to believe, against a stronger bowling and batting lineup.

Irrelevant as India collapsed in the third innings as they tend to do under Kohli in away tests in key moments.

Similar to WTC final, when all India needed to do was bat out a session plus on the last day but couldnt keep it together.

Could India under Kohli have rebounded to win that series? Dont think so, it required something special and Rahane provided that inspiration.

 

[honestbharani]

This is a nonsensical take to be honest. With Kohli captaining, Australia needed the luckiest day of their lives to salvage a pink ball Test where their best bat was Tim Paine. We could've quite possibly won 3-0 if things worked like you seem to believe, against a stronger bowling and batting lineup.

I think its nonsensical to expect anything but nonsensical takes from statsgurushakerz. I mean, you need to watch cricket to actually understand how it works.

And FWIW, Rahane was absolutely cluelessly bad as captain at Kanpur. In fact, I think his captaincy is the main reason we did not win that test. Australia was all about Bewda and his coaching team and their tactics.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Kohli might've asked Pujara to bat with intent at sydney and brisbane which wouldve been counterproductive. So I dont know.

 

[Arachnodouche]

That 20/21 series was a testament to Rahane and dressing room reports from the time noted that the team were considerably more relaxed than usual.

Someone who puts so much stock in cold stats shouldn't be so easily swayed by "reports from unnamed sources" Not sure if people are that naive or just plain malicious; websites need clicks and what better way of generating those than by shitting out yet another gossip piece attributed to shadowy dressing room characters.

 

[subshakerz]

I think its nonsensical to expect anything but nonsensical takes from statsgurushakerz. I mean, you need to watch cricket to actually understand how it works.

And FWIW, Rahane was absolutely cluelessly bad as captain at Kanpur. In fact, I think his captaincy is the main reason we did not win that test. Australia was all about Bewda and his coaching team and their tactics.

Really, so Rahane's captaincy had nothing to do with India winning in Australia? That's an unusual take.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Rahane has captained India to two great series wins vs Australia after Kohli went out mid series when we were in trouble. No one can take that away from him. Even after he's rightly binned from the team and never plays for India again.

 

[Victor Ian]

I think Kohli haters will come round and lick his balls again, when he's gone. He's been captain a while and people like to think a change will somehow make their team better, but rarely is it so, apart from the honeymoon period.

 

[honestbharani]

Really, so Rahane's captaincy had nothing to do with India winning in Australia? That's an unusual take.

So you pick and choose which Ashwin's interviews you read, just like statsguru?

 

[honestbharani]

Rahane has captained India to two great series wins vs Australia after Kohli went out mid series when we were in trouble. No one can take that away from him. Even after he's rightly binned from the team and never plays for India again.

I think I have mentioned it before but almost all news and views coming out of the Indian side post BG 20/21 was about the tactics and strategies all being from the coaches. Rahane has a calming presence on the field for his players which is great but when he was on his own when it came to strategizing he was found wanting. So no, I dont think he was as responsible for the BG win earlier this year as much as the coaching staff.

 

[subshakerz]

I think Kohli haters will come round and lick his balls again, when he's gone. He's been captain a while and people like to think a change will somehow make their team better, but rarely is it so, apart from the honeymoon period.

Kohli is a good captain, all said and done, but not a great captain. His main achievements are the enviable home record and Australia win through emphasizing a strong pace attack and aggressive play. His main drawback as a captain is his batting side chocking in key moments in big tournaments or away series. That's my take.

 

[honestbharani]

Someone who puts so much stock in cold stats shouldn't be so easily swayed by "reports from unnamed sources" Not sure if people are that naive or just plain malicious; websites need clicks and what better way of generating those than by ****ting out yet another gossip piece attributed to shadowy dressing room characters.

The funny part is the only reliable "dressing room info" came out of various player interviews who were all unanimous in their praise of Bewda and the coaching staff and their vision and strategies being the main reason we won there.

He is just insecure coz his idol needed to cheat to be an ATG, and does not have a wonderfully ethical brain.

 

[subshakerz]

So you pick and choose which Ashwin's interviews you read, just like statsguru?

The proof is in the pudding. India batting didnt buckle under pressure late in the matches, and youngsters excelled under him. That requires some captaincy skills no doubt.

It is odd to think Kohli should get credit for a series win after he left the team down in the dumps early in the series, and half of the team got injured and replaced mid-series.

 

[subshakerz]

The funny part is the only reliable "dressing room info" came out of various player interviews who were all unanimous in their praise of Bewda and the coaching staff and their vision and strategies being the main reason we won there.

He is just insecure coz his idol needed to cheat to be an ATG, and does not have a wonderfully ethical brain.

Except that you yourself admit that Rahane has a calming affect on the players which is the point I was saying. So no need to argue.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I mean, let's not be silly, if Kohli somehow gets credit for "instilling belief and culture" and all that for the Australia comeback despite not even being there, then surely Rahane deserves a ton of credit for actually being the one out there pulling it off. If we're going by the "coaching tactics were more important" then we can apply it to every series Kohli has won too.

Ultimately, the right take is probably that captaincy in general is overrated and doesnt have as much influence on results as people think. As long as you arent a clueless muppet you can get the job done if you have a talented group of well coached players.

 

[Xix2565]

Irrelevant as India collapsed in the third innings as they tend to do under Kohli in away tests in key moments.

Similar to WTC final, when all India needed to do was bat out a session plus on the last day but couldnt keep it together.

Could India under Kohli have rebounded to win that series? Dont think so, it required something special and Rahane provided that inspiration.

This is still nonsensical. Rahane's 100 was great, but crediting it all to him is doing exactly what Ashwin was complaining about in that Cricket Monthly interview. There is nothing here that is reflected in reality.

 

[honestbharani]

The proof is in the pudding.

So actual interviews from players who played in the series is not proof, but statsguru is. Classic.

Except that you yourself admit that Rahane has a calming affect on the players which is the point I was saying. So no need to argue.

I mean, if that is all you think there is to captaincy, then sure. Just proves you need to watch more cricket and less statsguru, so I agree.

 

[honestbharani]

I mean, let's not be silly, if Kohli somehow gets credit for "instilling belief and culture" and all that for the Australia comeback despite not even being there, then surely Rahane deserves a ton of credit for actually being the one out there pulling it off.

I did not say that ever though. The one thing I will give credit to Virat is his belief in fast bowling. It has often been to the detriment of our own spinners but he always believed in them and that helped us develop the stock that we have now in that area. Other than that, I agree with your last point. A good captain plays a vital role in a team winning but it is not the only role.