srbhkshk
International Captain
Not really because the other Captain/Coach combo wouldn't have debuted Bumrah in the SA series, leaving us with zero away Australian tour wins.
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Is Ashwin an ATG spinner / player?
- Thread starter ma1978
- Start date
CodeOfWisden
U19 Cricketer
Kohli's love for pace bowling helped India set up a pace bowling culture, that alone is a great achievement.
Also your reasoning doesn't make much sense, Kohli had the same bowlers which Dhoni had apart from Bumrah, but we were ranked no. 7 in his time, also Pujara and Rahane were way better batsman in Dhoni's era, while Rahane has been a passenger since 2016.
So, If Kohli has some good bowlers then to balance it out he had a mediocre batting line-up in his team.
Just look at how Kohli carried Indias' batting line-up in 2018 away from home.
Victor Ian
International Coach
Nah. Ashwin feels fake nice. He is a nice guy because he thinks about it too much. It is wise to be nice. There are many times he is a smart ass instead of bing a nice bloke. Sure he is legit nice here and there, but so is everyone. That is what I mean. There are moments where something is off about him.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
I really dont think you have seen enough of him to make either of those judgements. I am saying this as someone who has seen so much more of him. That is all.
EDIT - Virat's vilification is just so so stupid though. Its really horrible that even obvious achievements of his are questioned now.
srbhkshk
International Captain
Next logical step is to claim that it's nothing special to average 50+ as an Indian #4 batsman because that was happening before Virat's time too, hence he is just an average batsman and any other guy would have given us the same output.
Arachnodouche
International Captain
That Ashwin interview is Shane Warne-level psyops though. I'm sure he was just being candid but there's no way any batsman scheduled to face him feels comfortable reading that. Like having your own personal stalker...with x-ray glasses.
I think this is horesh*t. Culture matters and resilience matters and that’s built by leadership. You don’t have the comebacks in Australia and in Lords and at the Oval without a culture that never says die and that comes from the top.
karan_fromthestands
State Captain
Obvious achievements? The team doing well in his absence is a clear indicator of how good the side is.
_00_deathscar
International Regular
As (test) captains there isn’t much between them and you could go either way (Ganguly for generally instilling the “**** you” attitude to begin with).
I increasingly find myself giving it to Kohli though because he’s certainly been very responsible for the rise of the Indian pace attack - and that is epic to see.
karan_fromthestands
State Captain
Talking about logic, we were discussing "just" about his captainship I thought?
karan_fromthestands
State Captain
The team has pulled off some crazy wins way before Virat had even arrived. We lacked a group of pace bowlers who can give it back to the opposition on their turf, we have it now.
srbhkshk
International Captain
Mate you just claimed there's nothing special about being the most successful Indian test captain in like ever. How do I dare to even discuss the captainship then?
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
Say what you want
Kohli and Shastri are directly responsible for India's never say die mindset, which has helped India pull off comebacks like never seen before. India more often than not tended to 'concede comebacks' like that to opposition; now they are doing it themselves!!! Its a massive change and thats down to Kohli and Shastri and their leadership, vision & passion. Doesn't matter if Kohli is playing or not, their ideas are instilled in the squad.
Shastri and Kohli are also directly responsible for a pace attack that has pushed "hard" for results!! Pace bowlers who have improved with time and "kept" their pace high as well as intensity!!
what used to happen was India's fast bowlers used to lose 10 km/hr after 2 years. It happened to almost all the emerging quicks that India had over a long period of time!! The Wheel of medicority? People have already forgotten that?? Who has brought an end to that? Its Kohli and Shastri! Our bowlers are keeping the pace and intensity and are working hard (without fear of injury etc) because they have been backed, pushed and inspired like never before.
However....... it has definitely come to an expense of sidelining guys like Ashwin at times because team is obsessed with 4 fast bowler strategy. They may have also lacked in providing mental/moral support to certain players at times. So they have had their flaws and its obvious and hence why Shastri is out!!
because with kohli and Shastri together the team has gone in the same direction to the extreme at times, which has both "benefited and hindered" the team.
So to balance things out, they have brought in Dravid. Kohli and Dravid combo feels a lot better for the "current phase", now that the team has had success overseas and a strong mentality.
Kohli and Shastri are directly responsible for India's never say die mindset, which has helped India pull off comebacks like never seen before. India more often than not tended to 'concede comebacks' like that to opposition; now they are doing it themselves!!! Its a massive change and thats down to Kohli and Shastri and their leadership, vision & passion. Doesn't matter if Kohli is playing or not, their ideas are instilled in the squad.
Shastri and Kohli are also directly responsible for a pace attack that has pushed "hard" for results!! Pace bowlers who have improved with time and "kept" their pace high as well as intensity!!
what used to happen was India's fast bowlers used to lose 10 km/hr after 2 years. It happened to almost all the emerging quicks that India had over a long period of time!! The Wheel of medicority? People have already forgotten that?? Who has brought an end to that? Its Kohli and Shastri! Our bowlers are keeping the pace and intensity and are working hard (without fear of injury etc) because they have been backed, pushed and inspired like never before.
However....... it has definitely come to an expense of sidelining guys like Ashwin at times because team is obsessed with 4 fast bowler strategy. They may have also lacked in providing mental/moral support to certain players at times. So they have had their flaws and its obvious and hence why Shastri is out!!
because with kohli and Shastri together the team has gone in the same direction to the extreme at times, which has both "benefited and hindered" the team.
So to balance things out, they have brought in Dravid. Kohli and Dravid combo feels a lot better for the "current phase", now that the team has had success overseas and a strong mentality.
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
I feel like people are taking one sided views to this whole thing. Without Kohli and Shastri together, India still ...may have been searching for overseas series wins. Even Ashwin has clearly said that he holds Shastri in very high esteem despite his remarks. Shastri's positive influence has been unquestionable. India used to crumble away from home when the pressure was high or would fail to grab the key moments like any other visiting side.
India needed to have both Kohli and Shastri for a period of time to fully invest in things which have always been neglected. They needed to develop that culture and push hard for fast bowling.
But now was the right time to replace Shastri. Dravid will bring balance and guys like Ashwin will be fully backed overseas.
India needed to have both Kohli and Shastri for a period of time to fully invest in things which have always been neglected. They needed to develop that culture and push hard for fast bowling.
But now was the right time to replace Shastri. Dravid will bring balance and guys like Ashwin will be fully backed overseas.
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
In the 2018/19 series in Australia, India only won the first match in Adelaide by 30-50 run margin and lost the 2nd match in Perth by 150 runs.
It was close after 2 Tests. 1-1.
If not for India's fast bowling improvements, India could have easily been 0-2 down after 2 games and would've been staring at a series defeat as Australia had their full pace attack Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood at the time.
So I am confident that without Shastri and Kohli vision & leadership, India would have lost in Australia both in 18/19 as well as 20/21.
It was close after 2 Tests. 1-1.
If not for India's fast bowling improvements, India could have easily been 0-2 down after 2 games and would've been staring at a series defeat as Australia had their full pace attack Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood at the time.
So I am confident that without Shastri and Kohli vision & leadership, India would have lost in Australia both in 18/19 as well as 20/21.
OverratedSanity
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Yeah it's kinda dumb. He's a good test captain, most of the dumb things he's done are regarding team selection and the intent meme he keeps insistent on pushing . There has also been some very kind reappraisal of Dhoni's captaincy in particular by some people. He was a weak captain tactically in tests afaic, and Kohli is a huge upgrade on how he uses fast bowlers. The rise of fast bowling I'm not sure how much credit to give to him but there's no doubt he knows how to use them way better than Dhoni ever did. Most of the Kohli captaincy hate from casuals is to do with India choking in odi tournaments, but in tests he's mostly been great.
OverratedSanity
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Ashwin is a bit of a dick but he's usually a dick about the right stuff which I greatly appreciate. Like him exposing pitch discourse double standards with facts and logic.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, after all the crud from the other posters on that point, it appears Ashwin agree with me
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
With a doubt, if Kohli had been captain, India would have lost in 20/21 in Australia. India under his brand of high-pressure captaincy are unbeatable at home, but away are only capable of beating sides that are noticeably weakened. His team repeatedly buckled in key pressure moments in SA 2018, Eng 2018 and NZ 2019 and most recently in the WTC final which in part is a product of keeping his teammates on edge as his own style is so high intensity.
That 20/21 series was a testament to Rahane and dressing room reports from the time noted that the team were considerably more relaxed than usual.