Slifer
International Captain
If you wanted to be petty and piss off Stephen, you could add WI to that list. But even I'm not douchey enough to do that. Warne was just coming back from surgery when he got destroyed in 1999....
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Is Ashwin an ATG spinner / player?
- Thread starter ma1978
- Start date
Slifer
International Captain
I honestly think Sharma has the right temperament and technique to improve outside of India. In time, I'll back him to improve his record away. Which when combined with his immense home record, he can attain that atg status. He's not atg atm though....
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Only this line?
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
That is not the definition of destructive bowling though. Ashwin and Jadeja average 21 at home.
Having said this, Shakib is definitely a better allrounder than either and arguably a better cricketer as well.
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
He meant that a lot of them are **** against spin. Eg; Daryl Cullinan, who used to freeze every time he played Warne. Another example, Mike Gatting. Heard people say that he was a great player of the spin. Lol. He was merely decent. No disrespect to Warne's ball of the century though.
The issue with a lot of batsmen Warne faced from SA and England was they never covered the line of the spin when they batted. Use your feet ffs. Easier said than done, but many great players did it. Eg; Lara, Sehwag, Laxman, Tendulkar.
Arachnodouche
International Captain
Cullinan had an issue with Warne, not against spin. Had all the tools to play spin, did well in India too as I remember, but Warne was in his head bigtime.
Shri
Mr. Glass
Warne actually had so many chances to bowl aus to series wins in india but only got smashed down the ground instead. Not an ATG.
Shady Slim
International Coach
"if you take out all the guys warne did well against and focus exclusively on those who did well against him his record doesn't look great!!!!"
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Warne was **** against good players of spin. We know this because all the players he did well against had terrible records against Warne.
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
I said a lot of them, not all of them. Of course Warne would have done well against some good players of spin as well.
By the way, if we take out the 2 countries I mentioned (SA and Eng), Warne averages close to 27 in tests. Take out NZ as well, and he averages nearly 28. Three teams which were not known to possess many great players of spin. Still a very good record but closing in on a 30 average. In this forum, many bash Ashwin for averaging a little over 30 overseas, when in reality he is not a major downgrade over Warne.
Coronis
International Coach
So can we take out the countries Ashwin did well in too?
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
Yep, you will end up taking out all of them. The worst he averages against any country is 31.48 against Australia. I am not talking about the home/away split here though.
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
Talking exclusively of overseas performances, the one reason to rate Warne over Ashwin(and it is a genuine one) is that the countries where he performed well, his sample size is a lot more than Ashwin. Ashwin getting dropped overseas played a part though.
Both have 2 countries where their record do not look good. Ashwin (Aus - 2 series victories though, SA). Warne has WI and India.
Ashwin's inferior overseas record is not due to him sucking in more countries than Warne did, but because he hasn't played as much in the countries he did well as compared to Warne. No way I am implying that he would have done as well over a larger sample size, though I am not ruling it out either.
Both have 2 countries where their record do not look good. Ashwin (Aus - 2 series victories though, SA). Warne has WI and India.
Ashwin's inferior overseas record is not due to him sucking in more countries than Warne did, but because he hasn't played as much in the countries he did well as compared to Warne. No way I am implying that he would have done as well over a larger sample size, though I am not ruling it out either.
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subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, just take out teams Warne has done good against to make Ashwin look better.
Why dont you remove Bangladesh and WI then for Ashwin?
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
So all the marches won in other countries are meaningless?
OverratedSanity
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Did warne ever celebrate like this after getting a wicket?
If not he can sit the **** down. Ashwin's brainwaves are next level.
If not he can sit the **** down. Ashwin's brainwaves are next level.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Just because Eng and SA didnt have Lara level players of spin doesnt mean that the sides Warne played against were minnow level and just wicket buffets. i can understand why his record against India should be a failing but sometimes this point can be overdone to the extent that some imply we should just disregard his record against reasonably decent batting sides. The same batting SA lineup that Warne destroyed also won series in Sri Lanka, India and Pakistan, for example. England won in Pakistan and Sri Lanka and that was before the 2005 Ashes team. They werent always walking wickets against spin.
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